Renewables - do they have a future?

[Batcher]

That's nice. But what's the point in supplying households if you don't supply industry, street lamps etc?

and what's the point in supplying vast amounts at 3a.m. when its not needed and the turbines have to be disconnected but the landowners still paid?

and what's the point in having all this wonderful wind power, if you need 100% conventional power stations waiting on standby in case the wind drops

Surely if you supply all households with the energy you need then you need less conventional methods to supply the others until you get enough to cover everything? I'm sure technology will advance to the stage we can store the excess until it's needed.

[EternalOptimist]

Surely if you supply all households with the energy you need then you need less conventional methods to supply the others until you get enough to cover everything? I'm sure technology will advance to the stage we can store the excess until it's needed.

wouldn't it be nice if, just for once, they gave it to us straight, without the propaganda ?

did you know that the conventional power stations have to be left on stand by at great cost, in case the wind drops ?
The generating companies cant afford to run them so inefficiently so they have to be subsidised.
In Germany, industry cant afford these high costs , so they get subsidised as well.

The whole thing is mad

[VectraMan]

Surely if you supply all households with the energy you need then you need less conventional methods to supply the others until you get enough to cover everything? I'm sure technology will advance to the stage we can store the excess until it's needed.

It's not energy, it's electricity. Most households have gas for heating/water/cooking, and that's not taking into account the energy they might use for transport. So only a fraction of their energy needs are being supplied by renewables even if you ignore EO's points.

[Batcher]

It's not energy, it's electricity. Most households have gas for heating/water/cooking, and that's not taking into account the energy they might use for transport. So only a fraction of their energy needs are being supplied by renewables even if you ignore EO's points.

Yes, obviously I meant electricity. I know windmills can't generate gas yet

As gas supplies dry up then we'll need to move to having all electric appliances including our cars. It's all about planning for the future.

[DodgyAgent]

Y It's all about planning for the future.

It is all about left wing agendas to be seen to be virtuous

[pjclarke]

That's nice. But what's the point in supplying households if you don't supply industry, street lamps etc?

and what's the point in supplying vast amounts at 3a.m. when its not needed and the turbines have to be disconnected but the landowners still paid?

and what's the point in having all this wonderful wind power, if you need 100% conventional power stations waiting on standby in case the wind drops

did you know that the conventional power stations have to be left on stand by at great cost, in case the wind drops ?
The generating companies cant afford to run them so inefficiently so they have to be subsidised.


In Germany, industry cant afford these high costs , so they get subsidised as well.

All forms of generation require backup, 'conventional' stations can go offline at short notice - remember when Torness nuclear had to be taken off the grid due to jellyfish in the water intake? WInd power is in fact highly predictable. The National Grid estimates they will have to increase spinning reserve from 5% of the total to 8% to support wind generation. Woo-hoo!

And constraint payments - payments not to generate are made to conventional sources as well, constraint payment to wind farms were only 6% of the total in 2012, a few pence on the annual bill.

wouldn't it be nice if, just for once, they gave it to us straight, without the propaganda ?

That broke my irony meter.

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...rbon-emissions

[EternalOptimist]

I have never seen any honesty from the Greens in the past, I don't expect to see any in the future.

Did you know we contribute heavily to the UN climate fund to help poor countries cope and combat climate change ?

Did you also know that the UN paid the Japanese 1bn to build some coal fired stations in Indonesia ?


It's mad. the whole thing is mad

[pjclarke]

Not quite, Japan loaned Japanese companies money to build coal power plants in Indonesia, and finessed it as part of the Japanese contribution to a UN climate fund on the basis that these were 'cleaner' coal plants.. It was an egg-on-the-face moment showing lack of oversight at the UN, but none of your money was spent....

Hey, if you want madness ...

A Legal Duty to Maximise Greenhouse Gases | George Monbiot

[EternalOptimist]

an egg on the face moment ?


you had better start getting used to that. People are latching onto the scam.

meanwhile :-

arctic ice is up.
Antarctic ice is up
polar bears are up

[pjclarke]

2014 to Be Hottest Year Ever Measured - Scientific American