Renewables - do they have a future?

[barrydidit]

Sorry, I was a continuation of the first post. 10 times the stone of the Berlin wall, so 700 miles.

Oh ok then. I'm not getting my trundle wheel out again tonight, i'll take your word it's that long.

[EternalOptimist]

Sorry, I was a continuation of the first post. 10 times the stone of the Berlin wall, so 700 miles.

I dont like the idea of comparing the Berlin Wall with Green energy policy

One was a disastrous attempt to protect a viscious socialist agenda that condemned millions to slavery and death, the other was to help the soviet union to survive

[NickyBoy]

So as a starter for 10 you accept the basic argument that renewable energy is not saving any energy or CO2 output as it stands today.

Yep. I would have to be some kind of fact denying greeny loon to think otherwise.

Wouldn't it make more sense to invest in developing the technology, rather than subsiding (with tax) a full scale roll out of technology that doesn't meet its stated goal?

It would make more sense to do both.

Technological development is driven as much by lessons learned from applying that technology as it is by intentionally trying to improve it through funded development. The two work together, driving each other at a rate that neither can provide in isolation.

Unfortunately, in order for renewable companies to get out there start competing with each other in the way that so wonderfully drives innovation, they need to be subsidized to bring them up to spec with non-renewables.

Putting the perceived dangers aside, wouldn't it make absolute sense to go near 100% nuclear for electricity generation and move all transport to electric? This would be till such a time as as renewable energy makes economic sense?

The dangers of Nuclear power have been massively overstated. To me it looks easy to understand, but it seems to be extremely politically charged.

Other than the need to actually gain practical experience of using renewable tech on a large scale out in the world, yes nuclear is the perfect stopgap solution until renewables come into their own.


I'm not a 'RAR RAR SAVE THE PLANET' type (I cant stomach their rejection of Nuclear power myself), but I do have a reasoned self interest in my own future and the future of my descendants, uncoloured by the selfish NIMBY'ism or moronic aesthetic concerns so often spouted in these discussions.

What it boils down to is that subsidising renewables is no different than building infrastructure. Both of them is an optional cost taken on by governments that not everyone agrees with, on the hope that it will lead to greater economic growth at some time in the future. Short sighted fools who bleat about the cost are best ignored. You can be damn sure that when it comes to optional government expenditure that lines the fools pockets, they will miraculously stop bleating.

[EternalOptimist]

Interesting, so your position is that by increasing the cost of energy this will somehow miraculously reduce the propensity for the human race to generate CO2?

You need to have a quick look at the reasons why the oil price is now trending below $50 a barell. Come back and restate your logic.

NickyBoy may not be an eco fruit-loop , but many of his fellow travellers sure are.

The reason why oil prices are coming down is mostly due to the exploitation of shale in the USA. As one form of energy becomes very cheap it has a downward pressure on others.
So even though GB is not yet exploiting shale gas, we are getting a bit of a spin off.
Which is good, in my opinion.

Many Greens hate the idea of plentiful cheap energy, but I think its a good thing. CO2 is a red herring.
There is absolutely zero correlation between CO2 and temperature, even the fanatics must see that, after 18+ years of flat lining temperatures.

[TykeMerc]

I don't subscribe to the CO2 = global warming agenda, but I would really like to see renewables become viable, reliable and cheap.

The UK has a load of windy places and a sod of a lot of coastline with some serious tides, if the technology to exploit those power sources became available (turbines as they stand now don't really achieve the objective) then this country could gain a measure of self sufficiency which wouldn't do the economy any harm.

[SpontaneousOrder]

[BrilloPad]

The reason why oil prices are coming down is mostly due to the exploitation of shale in the USA. As one form of energy becomes very cheap it has a downward pressure on others.

That is a reason. But oil is needed for other stuff too - like plastics. Another issue is that OPEC are fragmenting.

[Batcher]

All renewables have a future but they not for large scale use.

So using them to generate electricity for a few hundred homes indiviual for bus stops, parking meters etc works however expecting to use them to provide electricity for a few thousand homes at a time doesn't.

Not the case in Scotland.

"The figures, released today (8 December) by WWF Scotland, reveal that wind turbines generated approximately 812,890MWh of electricity to the National Grid in November, meeting the electricity demands of 107% of Scottish households."

Scotland's renewable revolution sets shining example for Lima

[EternalOptimist]

Not the case in Scotland.

"The figures, released today (8 December) by WWF Scotland, reveal that wind turbines generated approximately 812,890MWh of electricity to the National Grid in November, meeting the electricity demands of 107% of Scottish households."

Scotland's renewable revolution sets shining example for Lima

That's nice. But what's the point in supplying households if you don't supply industry, street lamps etc?

and what's the point in supplying vast amounts at 3a.m. when its not needed and the turbines have to be disconnected but the landowners still paid?

and what's the point in having all this wonderful wind power, if you need 100% conventional power stations waiting on standby in case the wind drops

[TykeMerc]

What EO says is completely true, the 107% is a statistic which looks lovely on the surface, but may well fail under even cursory let alone detailed examination.

If the supply isn't 24/7, capable of responding to peaks and troughs in demand and totally reliable then it's not a lot of use as it stands. That's where things like the Dinorwig facility come into play, assuming you've built them in sufficient numbers, otherwise the renewables simply become window dressing on conventional supply arrangements.