Even More Hillsborough...

[shaunbhoy]

If the gates hadn't been opened by the Police, on Duckenfield's orders, would anyone have died in a crush outside the stadium?
Just asking!

[BolshieBastard]

dukenfield originally said the fans broke the gate down. They didnt and he's admitted he lied. The police failed to close two large barn type sliding doors that covered the tunnel that led to the terracing. That tunnel and pitch beyond was the first thing anyone on the concourse behind the stand saw and an obvious path to the terracing.

In 1988 the year before (for glenw's benefit, I also went to that game) if you didnt have a ticket a police cordone stopped you getting within 250 metres of the gates.

Liverpool fans got the smaller Leppings Lane terrace with fewer turnstiles despite having a bigger number of season ticket holders who qualified for semi final tickets.

Liverpool fans got the Leppings Lane because it was 'easier' for SYP to monitor fans arrival at the ground given the route we'd been given to travel to sheffield. But as I said, the previous season there was a cordon around the ground, in 89 there wasnt.

[ZARDOZ]

When will the victims of the Heysel disaster get justice? Fans without tickets, hooligans, and a stampede.
But of course it's NEVER the fault of the scousers even when it is.

It doesn't matter whether the doors were opened or not there was going to be a crush. Those ticketless fans trying to get in just like at Heysel should also be in the dock.

[minestrone]

Opening gates was standard police practice during the 80s when crushes happened at gates. Seen it happen a few times and was in games a few times through 'opened' gates.

I'm not blaming anyone but this copper should not carry the can, we never understood crowd dynamics at that point, we never understood stadium design incorporating crowd dynamics at that point.

Liverpool fans cannot keep saying they are blameless. No policeman, journalist or politician told them to storm that gate in the way the did, and the evidence is clear that they did.

I'm sad these Liverpool supporters died, I truly am, but looking at the video it was not the match commander that caused this.

[ZARDOZ]

Those inside the ground were the law abiding supporters who had a right to be there. Can that be said of the others. If not why are they not in for ANY blame?

[minestrone]

Liverpool fans cannot let this moment of contrition escalate into more division. That is more what I am saying.

He could have just said , "feck you", he didn't.

[stek]

The real culprit is probably the fencing in that was normal then because of the past poor behaviour of fans of al teams really.

Even so - disasters like this happened without fencing in almost the same situation as Hillsborough, new pic here, taken from the Manchester Road Stand at Burnden Park in 1946, shortly after the crush.

March 9th, all forgotten. My Dad and my Uncle are all in there somewhere.....

[original PM]

If the gates hadn't been opened by the Police, on Duckenfield's orders, would anyone have died in a crush outside the stadium?
Just asking!

Well this is exactly why Duckenfield allowed the gates to be opened - to stop people get crushed outside the ground.

Obviously it was not thought through and sadly many people died.

So yes he should not have opened the gates - but yes people without tickets should not have been trying to get into the ground.

[SimonMac]

Inquest has declared the fans were unlawfully killed

Big two questions have been answered

QUESTION 6: Determination on unlawful killing issue

Are you satisfied, so that you are sure, that those who died in the disaster were unlawfully killed? Yes or no.

Yes

QUESTION 7: Behaviour of the supporters

Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? Yes or no.

No.

[Mordac]

BBC News - Hillsborough inquests: David Duckenfield admits 'mistakes' caused disaster

Quite difficult to dmit you have killed 96 people. I wonder if he will be prosecuted?

Hopefully.