Merged threads discussing Israel

[NotAllThere]

...
The British Empire caused many problems but the creation of Israel was by far the daftest.

As I understand it, like the partition of India, the plan was that the two sides created would be too busy trying to beat the crap out of each other to cause problems for British interests. The only exception being NI, set up as a training ground for the army. Or perhaps that's just a bit too cyncial.

... but due to their crazy religious beliefs that will never happen as they believe they have a god given right to be there, regardless of how much carnage it causes.

The anti-zionist group "True Torah Jews" estimate about 20% of all Israelis are anti-Zionist, of whom half are the ultra-orthodox. From research carried out two years ago it seems about right that 80% of the population support settlements. But as the article points out, and as the government has maintained consistently, it is the security gains that are paramount - not the religious ideology. For example, the Golan Heights, taken from Syria are massively important from a security perspective.

It's not quite as simple as "well, God gave us this land, so we're going to keep it, and expand it until it's the size it was under David".

The root cause of the fighting is in my view that Hamas (and other Palestinian groups) desire to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

[Old Greg]

At least we argue the point whereas you smear and spout your bigotry through one liners and cliches.

Are you being ironic? If so, I'm impressed.

[Old Greg]

The root cause of the fighting is in my view that Hamas (and other Palestinian groups) desire to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

An interesting view of root cause. What is the root cause of "Hamas (and other Palestinian groups) desire to wipe Israel off the face of the earth"?

[lilelvis2000]

Israel should start discussions to give back illegally occupied land and guarantee no more illegal settlements which is the root cause of the fighting. In an ideal world I would prefer that the Jewish population moved to a more welcoming place, perhaps in the USA, but due to their crazy religious beliefs that will never happen as they believe they have a god given right to be there, regardless of how much carnage it causes.

The settlements are probably more related to poverty than anything as quite often the land they use is taken from a Palestinian farmer or herder. and then there is the security cordon which takes more land. And the Palestinians are not allowed within a range of the cordon et al. then there are the road blocks and special settler only roads. So what used to be a short journey turns into a 3hr. commute.

Some people do believe in the whole "squatters" things. Some just don't like arabs. Having a completely partitioned education system probably doesn't help matters.

The root cause IMHO is the manner of injustice the Palestinians face. Whereas the Israelis get light sentences, the Palestinians can face many years before they are even charged and many more years of the sentence. If they were treated fairly, had an equal shot at jobs and there wasn't that 'I'm better than you in your face' attitude, there would be far less violence.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Israel should start discussions to give back illegally occupied land and guarantee no more illegal settlements which is the root cause of the fighting. In an ideal world I would prefer that the Jewish population moved to a more welcoming place, perhaps in the USA, but due to their crazy religious beliefs that will never happen as they believe they have a god given right to be there, regardless of how much carnage it causes.

Or how about part of Germany where they would have a legitimate right? It was there the hollocaust took place so why are the Palestinians being punished for it instead?

[Old Greg]

At some point, you need to draw a line in the sand. Israel is not going anywhere, and nor are we going to redraw all the borders back to a status quo ante - where would we go back to , 1 January 1939?

There will be no return of Palestinian refugees to Israel, but perhaps if there were a comprehensive peace settlement the world could put its hand in its pocket to create a compensation fund for confiscated property.

But having done this, it cannot be acceptable now to create 'new facts on the ground', an attempt to colonise / annex East Jerusalem and other parts of the West Bank etc. etc.

[NotAllThere]

An interesting view of root cause. What is the root cause of "Hamas (and other Palestinian groups) desire to wipe Israel off the face of the earth"?

The lands were historically Muslim, and a Jewish state has no place on them. It's all Islamic land, and the occupiers must come under Islamic rule.

This is pretty explicitly stated in the Hamas charter.

It's not the settlements, it's not the land that was taken during the various wars - it's the entire area.

[Old Greg]

The lands were historically Muslim, and a Jewish state has no place on them. It's all Islamic land, and the occupiers must come under Islamic rule.

This is pretty explicitly stated in the Hamas charter.

It's not the settlements, it's not the land that was taken during the various wars - it's the entire area.

This may be the Hamas position, and Hamas may have popular support, but I doubt it follows that if a two state solution was on the table, Palestinian popular support would remain behind Hamas' position. People without hope are often driven to extremist positions so give them hope of their own state.

What surprises me is that there isn't a deal struck over the head of the Palestinians to give West Bank minus East Jerusalem and a couple of other settled areas contiguous to Israel to Jordan, and Gaza to Egypt. Maybe the Jordanians and Egyptians don;t want to play.

[Scruff]

For those who intend boycotting Israeli Products:

The laptop that you intend purchasing, whether Intel or AMD based, will have had their processors and/or chipsets designed in Tel-Aviv.

Skype / ICQ / Waze / Google Maps - have a guess?

IBM XIV?

EMC Storage?

There are many many more...

For those of thus who are IT Contractors and who are highly critical of Israel, you might want to reconsider your career options...?

Whilst Israel is no angel, the situation there is highly complex. A ceasefire is offered, accepted by one party and the other party chooses to ignore it. What would YOU do if your family was fired upon? Neither side has a win/win option, other than being able to pass on the period of negotiated peace on to the coming generations.

[lilelvis2000]

This may be the Hamas position, and Hamas may have popular support, but I doubt it follows that if a two state solution was on the table, Palestinian popular support would remain behind Hamas' position. People without hope are often driven to extremist positions so give them hope of their own state.

What surprises me is that there isn't a deal struck over the head of the Palestinians to give West Bank minus East Jerusalem and a couple of other settled areas contiguous to Israel to Jordan, and Gaza to Egypt. Maybe the Jordanians and Egyptians don;t want to play.

Wasn't Gaza originally part of Egypt anyway? and the west bank part of Trans Jordan. Yeah the refugees are not well treated in either country. Too much tribalism. I know a few Palestinians, they had to lie about their background to get a job in Jordan.