what's on your wish list

**Cowboy Bob** · 18 August 2006, 17:23

Simple.

1) Tell the truth. None of this "well the client has decided that they're not going to pay the original rate" which translates as "I'm a greedy bastard and I'm going to try and make my cut larger".

2) If I call to get feedback on a role, don't just ignore me (or get your co-workers to take a message and never get back). Just tell me I haven't got the contract. I'm an adult. I'm not going to cry or anything.

3) Learn the law. It is illegal for you to ask for a copy of my passport. I work for my own company therefore do not need to provide you with evidence that I'm entitled to work in this country. Opting-out does NOT mean that my contract is IR35 friendly.

4) Make sure your collegues know who you have contacted. I don't want 15 people from the same office ringing me up about the same role.

5) I know best about what roles I'm suitable for. You are not. I don't care about that amazing .NET role. I'm a Java developer. Ring me up by all means, but don't try and tell me what my skills are or are not.

**oraclesmith** · 18 August 2006, 19:08

......

6. Don't pump me for leads, which you then give to your telesales idiots so they can phone my clients up begging for work.

7. Try to learn something about the technology you're trying to talk to me about.

8. Make sure the brief you put out is accurate. ie. the basics such as the location, the tech skills needed, the nature of the project, the probable duration etc.

9. Don't accept the client's lazy HR department just cut and pasting their permie job spec into a contract description. Get them to describe the project in contractors terms. Or you do it. I am not applying for a permie job.

10. I don't want to talk about line managers, appraisals, interview feedback and so on. I am a contractor - a hired hand brought in to do a specific job which the client's staff cannot do. I am a company director who has to know their way round company law, accounts etc. I am not a permie job-seeker and I do not like being treated like one.

11. Don't try to tell me that the client will take me on but not at the rate published. I know they will have already have budgetted for the contract at whatever rate they told the recruiter. As hirer, it would make no sense to me to buy in someone who is cheaper but not up to the job - I would end up with a small surplus in the budget but my project would go tits up. Don't be so stupid to think that I wouldn't find out you're ripping me off or that it wouldn't matter to the client as well.

12. I like to hear 'I think we can do better than that' when talking about rates. You help the contractor by leveraging the rate. You work for the client by accurately matching contract to contractor.

13. Tell me what the acceptance process is for the client asap. I do not want to waste my time going to day long assessment centres like I'm a permie after the job of a lifetime.

14. Write contract descriptions in fluent, correctly spelt English or I'll think you're not serious about your job.

15. Actually USE the fecking database you're collecting all these CV's on.

16. Don't ask me to give my date of birth as it is good for ID theft. I am a hired hand. It doesn't matter how old I am.

17. If I haven't done much since the last contract, try to understand that it might be because I am a highly paid professional and I don't need to work very hard to make all the money I need to have a nice comfortable well-balanced life. Don't assume that I am a desperate job-seeker duffer who has been trying for the last X months to get some sort of work. Don't assume I am a lazy B'std who is not serious about their profession.

.. I'll think of some more in a minute.

PS. Cowboy Bob; the PCG are, I think, advising limiteds to comply with ID verification for the Asylum & Immigration Act, which is different to the opt out on the Employment business legislation. The reason is that there should be nothing to hide and that it might otherwise jeopardise the contract agreement.

**Cowboy Bob** · 18 August 2006, 19:26

Originally posted by oraclesmith

PS. Cowboy Bob; the PCG are, I think, advising limiteds to comply with ID verification for the Asylum & Immigration Act, which is different to the opt out on the Employment business legislation. The reason is that there should be nothing to hide and that it might otherwise jeopardise the contract agreement.

To be honest, I'm not bothered about the contract agreement. No-one yet has ever asked me for this information, and nor would I give it out. It's a matter of principle as I wish to be treated as the director of my own company not some perma-temp. If I lose the contract, so be it.

Also, IMO the PCG are a bunch of toothless people who are all talk and no action. Look at all that palava about iProfile when they should just be out there telling the agents and Skillsmarket that it's a pile of useless tulipe and advising their members not to touch it with a bargepole. Instead they get all touchy-feely and keep scheduling useless meetings with Skillsmarket. I'm straying OT here, but essentially the only real reason I'm a member of the PCG is for the money off insurance etc and the legal help line.

Finally, did you read this in this thread about the legality of handing over a copy of your passport - http://www.pcg.org.uk/threads/showpo...12&p=0&v=c&s=5 - assuming you have a login. Take note where she says it's a breach of Crown Copyright. In other words YOU are breaking the law if you send a copy.

From :
Sent : 17 August 2006 11:21:16
To :
Subject : [OPSIForum] Re: Clarification required regarding Photocopying of UK Passports
From : Judy Nokes (judy.nokes@cabinet-office.x.gsi.gov.uk)

Dear Colin,

The British Passport may be copied for the purposes record-keeping or a person or institution subject to the requirements of the Money Laundering Regulations, or a person certifying that identification checks required under these Regulations have taken place. The copy of the details pages must be in black and white and may not be copied without the permission of the passport holder. The passport must be copied in the presence of the passport holder, and may only be kept for security reasons. The copy must be kept in a secure file and under no circumstances be passed to a third party.

You are quite right in your assertion that it is a breach of Crown copyright to copy the passport and send this copy to a third party. A copy of a passport is no proof of identity unless accompanied by the passport holder. I would suggest you read our Guidance note on the re-production of the British Passport
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/advice/crown-...h-passport.htm

Judy Nokes
Information Policy Adviser

Followed up by this:-

Dear Colin,

I think many companies requesting the copying of passports are acting in genuine ignorance of guidance and not with any intended malice. Usually, we find that when advised of the suggested policy guidelines, companies are swift to correct any discrepancies. I suspect that Dti have given out the guidance as provided by the Identity and Passport Agency, but that the advice has been interpreted differently in many cases. We work closely with the Identity and Passport Agency and seek to give concise and clear advice about this matter. However, I will be copying our correspondence to my colleague at IPA for her information.

Yours sincerely

Judy

Judy Nokes
Information Policy Adviser

Office of Public Sector Information
St Clements House
2-16 Colegate
Norwich
NR3 1BQ

**oraclesmith** · 18 August 2006, 19:56

.....

18. I am a professional not a commodity. There is not an unlimited supply of contractors in your specialism and there is not an unlimited supply of clients. If you mess me and the client about it will come back to you and yourf company and you will be poorer for it. Remember, if I get the contract I will be spending the next several months at the client site amongst their managers and staff...

19. Learn the basics of the tax situation with contractors. Understand that contractors may be working outside IR35, so don't insist they do anything which will jeopardise this.

**oraclesmith** · 18 August 2006, 22:50

Originally posted by hotwired

My slant is they are my customers, you are one of their customers.
To make sure your customer is happy you ask them what they want and deliver on it. They want to know how best to do their job to earn more money. I want to deliver that. They'll earn more money if they deliver more for their customers. You.

and finally....

20. Be under no impression that contractors think they are your customers. They are not. Your firm is paid by the client so your loyalties are to the client and your firm. Any contractor that doesn't understand that is a fool. However, contractors are your means to a happy, long and profitable relationship with your clients so just be professional and everyone gets what they want.

**thunderlizard** · 19 August 2006, 10:13

OracleSmith is right. You've got it back to front. Contractors aren't agents' customers. Contractors carry out a service for the agency, send invoices to the agency, and receive payment from them. That means the agent is the contractor's customer.
So:
(1) The agency shouldn't be the ones writing the supply contract. That's the supplier's job pretty much anywhere else.
(2) Obviously it's OK for the agency to have a budget in mind, but they shouldn't get annoyed when the contractor tells them the price and they want to pay a bit less.

**oraclesmith** · 19 August 2006, 20:22

Hey hotwired...how about some thanks for all this ?

**thunderlizard** · 19 August 2006, 21:14

He's probably gone back into estate agency already.

**hotwired** · 21 August 2006, 08:54

I'm a she

Good morning and thank you for all of your response. I really appreciate it. I've had the pleasure of a weekend not working and so apologise for the delay in responding to you. Hope you've also had a good weekend.

Let me assure you, I am not an estate agent never have been and in all honesty never will be. I am a training professional and to be fair could make a lot of money in training estate agents because I'm good at training people to do their jobs; and not funnily enough to rip people off. And you would be surprised(?) at how effective it is; hence why I wanted to speak with you and understand your position more.

You've given me some more food for thought..

Points 1-5 absolute common sense.
Point 3 - on the legality side my hands are up , I don't train this as I am not a legal trainer. I've done some investigating this morning and am only getting wooly answers, there seems to be a difference of opinion. I'm looking into it more and have taken into consideration your references.

Point 6 - in what situations would you be happy to offer info about leads to an agent? Obviously you would prefer not to be called by an agent you don't know and pressed for leads.

Everything else makes sense. I've taken on board the 'who is the customer' and I absolutely agree with the 'be professional and everyone gets what they want' side of things.

Again, many thanks for your input and if you think there is more to be said, I would definately want to know about it.

Hotwired (of the female variety!)

what's on your wish list