Out of pocket for hotel due to clients uselessness

[The Spartan]

Unfortunately we are but mere pawns on the chessboard

[TheFaQQer]

When you discussed shift work at the interview, and you put those discussions into the contract, what terms did you agree? If you didn't discuss it at interview (and I can't / don't keep track of what you do with your clients) then when you agreed to the shift work, what did you agree? And did you agree any of that in writing?

Isn't this generally part and parcel of contracting - you take a risk about expenses when you are working away. I had a flat I rented for three months based on the contract extension, and they terminated a week later for no reason.

If the client is looking to deviate from the contract, and this incurs an additional cost to your business, then I would have looked to get the expenses included. If you'd known about them at the start of the role, then you would price the expenses into the equation, so it's not unreasonable to expect them to pay extra when they deviate from the contract.

[psychocandy]

I would hope that we are not at the level yet where people are just seen as a commodity to be moved around like office furniture. Sadly in alot of cases it seem we are.

BP - you seem to be agreeing with me. :-)

Regardless of the business argument, you've got to be fair to people regardless of their status within your company. People harp on here about contractors being professional but things like this really annoy me when its the clients who think they can get away with murder.

Imagine hiring a consultant from IBM for a week then cancelling them with less than a days notice? Can't imagine you'd get away with it.

[TheFaQQer]

Regardless of the business argument, you've got to be fair to people regardless of their status within your company. People harp on here about contractors being professional but things like this really annoy me when its the clients who think they can get away with murder.

It's not "getting away with murder", it's getting away with what the contract says. In the same way that some people might work less than 8 hours a day because the contract allows for a "professional working day", you work to the contract. If there is nothing in the contract which prevents this, then your argument is morally right but not legally.

Imagine hiring a consultant from IBM for a week then cancelling them with less than a days notice? Can't imagine you'd get away with it.

You would get away with it, as long as the contract allows it. If the contract doesn't, then you won't get away with it because it's a breach of contract.

[psychocandy]

When you discussed shift work at the interview, and you put those discussions into the contract, what terms did you agree? If you didn't discuss it at interview (and I can't / don't keep track of what you do with your clients) then when you agreed to the shift work, what did you agree? And did you agree any of that in writing?

Isn't this generally part and parcel of contracting - you take a risk about expenses when you are working away. I had a flat I rented for three months based on the contract extension, and they terminated a week later for no reason.

If the client is looking to deviate from the contract, and this incurs an additional cost to your business, then I would have looked to get the expenses included. If you'd known about them at the start of the role, then you would price the expenses into the equation, so it's not unreasonable to expect them to pay extra when they deviate from the contract.

Discussed at interview but never put into contract. BIG MISTAKE BY ME.

Yeh I can see how renting a flat for 3 months and then getting canned is bad, but this is slightly different surely? You know the contract allows for them to terminate. Not cool of course.

But to expect contractor to change his plans at a moments notice is a bit much IMHO.

[Bunk]

Discussed at interview but never put into contract. BIG MISTAKE BY ME.

Yeh I can see how renting a flat for 3 months and then getting canned is bad, but this is slightly different surely? You know the contract allows for them to terminate. Not cool of course.

But to expect contractor to change his plans at a moments notice is a bit much IMHO.

Well, the client obviously doesn't think so, and seeing as you're probably going to accept it, they're right. They're in a stronger position and they know it.

[psychocandy]

Well, the client obviously doesn't think so, and seeing as you're probably going to accept it, they're right. They're in a stronger position and they know it.

Unfortunately, it seems so....

[NotAllThere]

Just tell them you won't do it. You've always got that option

[psychocandy]

It's not "getting away with murder", it's getting away with what the contract says. In the same way that some people might work less than 8 hours a day because the contract allows for a "professional working day", you work to the contract. If there is nothing in the contract which prevents this, then your argument is morally right but not legally.


You would get away with it, as long as the contract allows it. If the contract doesn't, then you won't get away with it because it's a breach of contract.

Oh yes. Lesson learnt here. I waited until end of last week to book this accomodation as well and even checked before I did that the rota was up to date!

You always seem to get push back from clients who want these little things added. In the past, I've always agreed to do so with the client as a sort of 'gentlemans agreement' rather than drag it all into legal side of things such as contracts. To do so IMHO is usually frowned upon. You're the one who gets made out to be the awkward sod.

In the past never been a problem. Client is fair to you and you're fair to them.

Its a sad day when this sort of thing happens and, it appears, every small thing has got to be added to the contract.

Next time a client mentions shift work I will ensure that I add a clause that any changes invoke a penalty if within 7 days....

[psychocandy]

Just tell them you won't do it. You've always got that option

Yes true enough. I did initially say that I couldn't change. They're answer - OK well we don't need you to work nights next week so if you can't work days then we don't need you to come in any more.

Strictly speaking they are within their rights of course....

But it could all have been avoided so easily without any grief to anyone.