Aviva Contractor Shake-Up - All Out Within 60 Days + Rate Cut of 10%

[kaiser78]

He's got a point though, you do moan about your clients a hell of a lot.

But isn't he entitled to ? Must admit haven't the time nor the inclination to read all the posts referred to, but as a contractor in control of your own limited company and acting like a limited company, you have the right to moan if you are not being treated the way you expect to be ?

Just putting it out there...

[psychocandy]

Fair enough, but I assume that (almost) every reply on the professional forums comes with the caveat, "in my opinion ..." and that way you can take on board or ignore replies as suits your own circumstances.

Well, that's my opinion !

I'll let off because its xmas :-)

[escapeUK]

NLUK. Have a word with yourself...

Someone needs to tell you that:-

A). Your not always right about everything.

When was he right about anything? If you ever want to hear a strong held aggressively presented opinion backed up with zero experience then he's your man!

Anyway back to the topic, why not accept the 10% reduction, look for another job and once its in the bag tell them you are putting prices up 25%. Thats fair isnt it?

[BolshieBastard]

Have to say, these rate cuts mid contract piss me off. Bar crap pulled this on me back in 2001. I told them to shove their cut and I know my leaving caused them short term resourcing problems.

But, they would negotiate so **** 'em. I won't do any business at all with them. Won't have a bar crap card, bank account, business or personal etc, etc.

Clients see contractors as a soft touch (wonder why?). They don't cut permie wages, they don't cut other b2b contracts they have. They'd get sued. Contractors though, just accept it!

[SueEllen]

Clients see contractors as a soft touch (wonder why?). They don't cut permie wages,

No they just freeze them and restructure to make people redundant without being sued.

they don't cut other b2b contracts they have. They'd get sued.

You obviously have never met or dealt with the owners of smaller businesses who have dealt with the large supermarkets or other large multi-national companies.

Tricks these large companies do include:
1. Not paying the supplier at all for goods, and telling them to go and sue if they want the money,
2. Offering to pay some of the supplier's invoice,
3. Not telling them until the last possible minute they don't want them as a supplier any more causing to the devastation of entire towns.

Contractors though, just accept it!

Not all contractors accept it.

It depends on whether they desperately need the money or would like a few months rest.

I've left a contract when the terms changed.

I've left a contract when the client management changed.

In both cases the client was peeved but it was non-negotiable.

I learnt as a permie that if companies are willing to put in sh*t changes negotiating with them will only delay the change for a few months until they can find another supplier to take your place.

You are better walking away and leaving them in the sh*t. If they then want you back and if you are willing to go they will have to pay more.

[northernladuk]

Clients see contractors as a soft touch (wonder why?). They don't cut permie wages, they don't cut other b2b contracts they have. They'd get sued. Contractors though, just accept it!

I don't agree with this at all. If we want to be treated like and act like businesses we have to take pressure to deliver for less. Granted it never works the other way around though and for the record it annoyed me as well but I also stayed until the end of the contract and just move to a client with better conditions so technically I didn't take it, as won't many contractors. Just walking out to nothing is stupid though.

I am absolutely sure they do cut other b2b contracts and as there is still profit in it many of the b2b's stay, just like contractors. I know when I worked for a large outsourcer when they signed big deals for x number of years there was always a clause in to deliver the same service for x% less per year. Large companies are always trying to push back on cost.

They don't cut permies wages but they do give no increase so effectively the permies are worse off.

[Andy Hallett]

The client cannot universally decide to alter the terms of the contract. I assume they will issue you notice and then offer you a new contract at 10% less.

You can of course decide to decline this (in effect) extension.

The agents are never very happy about this either, we lose 10% of our margin!

This has been happening in the banks for 10+ years and has become a basic procurement technique.

[GB9]

In 6mth Aviva will have a round of permie redundancies and a month later will recruit contractors to back fill. Its what they do.

On the plus side it is good for being outside IR35 as it demonstrates financial risk.

[psychocandy]

Dont get me wrong I can see how people accept it. 90% of rate is better than 0% of rate if you aint got something else....

But then it depends on how much you need the contract I guess or how much confidence you've got that you can get something else.

And, I know NLUK is probably going to have a dig at me about being professional etc but current client gets at least 10% extra out of me (extra time/effort) as goodwill at the moment (client is crap but local manager is a decent fella).

Not being funny but if someone tried this one I'd be leaving on the dot of 7.5 hours every night. Not a minute more.

But then, I imagine there are contractors out there who would take it up the arse with a rate cut and then still go the extra mile for client for free. But not me....

Got one here at current client. Works weekends for free, works without contract for weeks on end, does on-call for free. Completely nuts...

[jmo21]

Dont get me wrong I can see how people accept it. 90% of rate is better than 0% of rate if you aint got something else....

But then it depends on how much you need the contract I guess or how much confidence you've got that you can get something else.

And, I know NLUK is probably going to have a dig at me about being professional etc but current client gets at least 10% extra out of me (extra time/effort) as goodwill at the moment (client is crap but local manager is a decent fella).

Not being funny but if someone tried this one I'd be leaving on the dot of 7.5 hours every night. Not a minute more.

But then, I imagine there are contractors out there who would take it up the arse with a rate cut and then still go the extra mile for client for free. But not me....

Got one here at current client. Works weekends for free, works without contract for weeks on end, does on-call for free. Completely nuts...

It's business at the end of the day.

Someone high up makes a decision based only on cutting a large number down. That's all they care about when making that decision.

And they will be seen as doing the right thing regardless of the ripple effect it will have down the line with cancelling projects, delaying projects, losing knowledge that is not transferred properly, general moral declining which also leads to people leaving of their own accord etc.

And it is up to us as businesses to make the decision which is right for us. Leave, stay, kick up a stink to stop your rate being cut, work to rule, agree to the cut.

Any of these options are correct, depending on what you think you can get from it. You may be proved right, you may be proved wrong.

Oh, and it happens to permies and "real" businesses to. Client co are always squeezing their suppliers, that is a simple fact of life.