*Not* allowed to interview for permanent position (AWR Regulations)

[BA to the Stars]

What are you actually trying to acheive?
Is it some form of financial redress because you were not given an interview?

Even if you make the most diplomatic of moves to get an interview, there is no guarantee that you will be offered the role.

If you did get a role, there may well be some tension between yourself and the manager who may feel that he has been over-ridden - do you want to work in that type of atmosphere?

Are you really wanting to go permie with the client? Have you considered the impact on income?

It is probably better to move on and look for the next contract.

[MyUserName]

I had seen something from the clientco agency 3-6 months ago indicating that they believe Ltd contractors are outside of AWR (but they would say that).

Am billing through own Ltd company. No rate rises have occurred and no holidays are paid for. Accounts are taken care by my accountant and therefore not sure of treatment - the client company is unlikely to know this either way.

As its ambiguous, AWR "could" be shown to apply - and does this therefore mean that I have some potential to redress with clientco?

If this is the case, my concerns about the hiring managers approach are more likely to receive a hearing, if diplomatically communicated to this risk adverse clientco company.

Forget it and move on. Seriously this is not going to do anything other than cause you hassle.

[kmge]

I had seen something from the clientco agency 3-6 months ago indicating that they believe Ltd contractors are outside of AWR (but they would say that).

Am billing through own Ltd company. No rate rises have occurred and no holidays are paid for. Accounts are taken care by my accountant and therefore not sure of treatment - the client company is unlikely to know this either way.

As its ambiguous, AWR "could" be shown to apply - and does this therefore mean that I have some potential to redress with clientco?

If this is the case, my concerns about the hiring managers approach are more likely to receive a hearing, if diplomatically communicated to this risk adverse clientco company.

On the basis of this answer you have not been placed within AWR by the Client Co or your Agency. You are a Ltd, you don't get to see anything the Client Co doesn't want you to see and you have no grounds for asking to see internal vacancies. Client Co manager can do what he wants basically.

As NLUK might say. Man up. You're a business, don't act like a wanna be permie. Start looking for another placement because it sounds like the Client Co manager has made up thier mind about you.

Harsh I know, but true.

[pauly]

On the basis of this answer you have not been placed within AWR by the Client Co or your Agency.

I doubt it is purely up to agencies or clientco's to decide who is within AWR, but rather the legislation and case law (which is ambiguous at this moment).

You are a Ltd, you don't get to see anything the Client Co doesn't want you to see and you have no grounds for asking to see internal vacancies. Client Co manager can do what he wants basically.

There are hiring policies in this organisation for advertising opportunities and ensuring open & fair hiring practices to internal contractors and permies.

As NLUK might say. Man up. You're a business, don't act like a wanna be permie. Start looking for another placement because it sounds like the Client Co manager has made up thier mind about you.

Harsh I know, but true.

I have seen the reply posts about "man'ing up" and "acting like a contractor"....

The reality is that some of us on this forum are agnostic about being a contractor or permanent depending on what works for us at a particular point of time in our lives. Security versus financial reward is usually the trade off. After a period of hard contracting work its disappointing that the permanent opportunity was denied by a new and temporarily seconded manager who seemed to just have it for anyone engaged on a contracting model (even if they are willing to go permie).

There is some wider work place politics which is always present in these situations. I simply need to discredit the approach of the manager and let the "powers that be" know that there is exposure with this kind of aggressive and unreasonable approach.

The redress could be in the form of other contract or perm roles in related areas or even a future sympathetic ear, as I walked away when I could have took it further.

[Taita]

I doubt it is purely up to agencies or clientco's to decide who is within AWR, but rather the legislation and case law (which is ambiguous at this moment).


There are hiring policies in this organisation for advertising opportunities and ensuring open & fair hiring practices to internal contractors and permies.


I have seen the reply posts about "man'ing up" and "acting like a contractor"....

The reality is that some of us on this forum are agnostic about being a contractor or permanent depending on what works for us at a particular point of time in our lives. Security versus financial reward is usually the trade off. After a period of hard contracting work its disappointing that the permanent opportunity was denied by a new and temporarily seconded manager who seemed to just have it for anyone engaged on a contracting model (even if they are willing to go permie).

There is some wider work place politics which is always present in these situations. I simply need to discredit the approach of the manager and let the "powers that be" know that there is exposure with this kind of aggressive and unreasonable approach.

The redress could be in the form of other contract or perm roles in related areas or even a future sympathetic ear, as I walked away when I could have took it further.

So your aim is revenge for being ignored.

It is a bad idea to earn a reputation for being difficult. Even if the ClientCo does have 'open and fair dealing' policies in place, your approach will see you noted for the wrong reasons.

If you are serious about a permanent job with ClientCo. Make an appointment to see some senior HR person, do not mention your miffed feelings but explain that having contracted there for some time you would like to be considered for a permanent post (make sure you can give good reasons why you want the job)... then let nature take its course.

[kmge]

There is no current case law concerning AWR. The regulations are open to interpretation and the Client Co has interpreted that you are not within the bounds of AWR it's as simple as that. On what you have said so far you are not an internal contractor you are a resource supplied by an Agency. If you believe that a subtle approch will work for you then go for it just be a little careful when throwing AWR legislation in the mix to back up a case, as you said it's ambiguous at best.

Attempting to "discredit" a manager that was appointed by the Client Co to do a piece of work for it might not be the best career move (if indeed you wish to persue a permie role). There is no exposure, no tribunal will even look at this and if any lawyer says they'll have a piece then all they want is a piece of your company/personal profits

The decision is yours

[jmo21]

I doubt it is purely up to agencies or clientco's to decide who is within AWR, but rather the legislation and case law (which is ambiguous at this moment).


There are hiring policies in this organisation for advertising opportunities and ensuring open & fair hiring practices to internal contractors and permies.


I have seen the reply posts about "man'ing up" and "acting like a contractor"....

The reality is that some of us on this forum are agnostic about being a contractor or permanent depending on what works for us at a particular point of time in our lives. Security versus financial reward is usually the trade off. After a period of hard contracting work its disappointing that the permanent opportunity was denied by a new and temporarily seconded manager who seemed to just have it for anyone engaged on a contracting model (even if they are willing to go permie).

There is some wider work place politics which is always present in these situations. I simply need to discredit the approach of the manager and let the "powers that be" know that there is exposure with this kind of aggressive and unreasonable approach.

The redress could be in the form of other contract or perm roles in related areas or even a future sympathetic ear, as I walked away when I could have took it further.

How is not replying to an email/ignoring you aggressive? It is barely even unreasonable.

The only thing they might have done wrong was not responding to your email.

If they wanted you, they would have told you to apply, or responded positively.

They knew they would never offer you the role, so didn't bother replying to the email.

If you had known that ahead of time, would you still wanted to interview. Would you have been satisfied with a "Thank you for your application, but at this time we have decided not to proceed with your application" type email.

[northernladuk]

I would then argue from the OPs last response that he is a true disguised employee who is just picking contracts as an easy way to get work rather than being a true contractor and understanding his way of working, relationship to his client and all the rules and regs associated with it.

Now if hmrc could find a way to come down on this and leave the rest of us in peace I would be a lot happier.

[centurian]

Accounts are taken care by my accountant and therefore not sure of treatment - the client company is unlikely to know this either way.

Then before you even think of proceeding an inch further, be absolutely clear what your tax treatment is. To classify yourself as being within AWR, you would have to make similar arguments that could also identify you as a possible disguised employee - the two things are not the same, but there is a lot of similarity.

If you succeed in making this argument and HMRC ever come knocking, then it cost you thousands, possibly into 5 figures depending on your rate.

[kingcook]

If you succeed in making this argument and HMRC ever come knocking, then it cost you thousands, possibly into 5 figures depending on your rate.

Assuming the OP is declaring himself outside IR35, i'd go a step further and say it would be 5 figures possibly 6 if HMRC come knocking many years down the line.