An alternative to notice period clause

[malvolio]

All of which assumes that you are investigated, that it turns into an IR35 case and that you lose. ?Yeah right...

The key is "irreducible minimum of mutuality", there will always be a degreee of mutuality since at some level if work is done payment is due. Pay for notice periods when you can do no work fail that test and are therefore an IR35 pointer. Like anyone should care in these more enlightened times.

But as I keep saying, if the client wants you out for any reason, firstly you won't have a signed timesheet so can't invoice and secondly they won't use the notice clause to stop the contract anyway so no notice is due in the first place. One day it will sink in...

[Spacecadet]

All of which assumes that you are investigated, that it turns into an IR35 case and that you lose. ?Yeah right...

No idea what you're referring to there but onwards anway...

The key is "irreducible minimum of mutuality", there will always be a degreee of mutuality since at some level if work is done payment is due. Pay for notice periods when you can do no work fail that test and are therefore an IR35 pointer. Like anyone should care in these more enlightened times.

Wrong! The key is "Contractual Agreement to provide resource". By agreeing to take on a client, the contractor has to clear the decks as it were to make time available for the client. If the client drops the contract with no notice then there will be financial loss for the contractor which could be avoided if the client gave proper notice.
It is no different from a hotel insisting that late cancelations incur 1 nights charge being paid. The charge is there to stop the client acting in a manner which is detrimental to how I run my business. If they choose to invoke that charge then that is their decision.
You are not being paid for work you haven't done. You're being paid for work you can't do because the client has acted inappropriately.

But as I keep saying, if the client wants you out for any reason, firstly you won't have a signed timesheet so can't invoice and secondly they won't use the notice clause to stop the contract anyway so no notice is due in the first place.

Agreed, no one is holding a gun to their head forcing them to keep a contractor on. However no timesheets does not mean you can't invoice or insist that any early termination charge is not paid (Over half of my work is invoiced with no timesheets anyway). If they refuse to pay and you take it to court then its for the courts to decide which means that if you are terminated early then evidence gathering in the form of supporting documents is cruical.
If they decide to invoke one of the other clauses, e.g. malpractice or the provided consultant not being up to scratch, then you will have to decide if they are using that as an easy out or if there is any merit.

One day it will sink in...

Yeah hopefully one day it will sink in that you are running a business and you can't just let yourself be shat on by all and sundry.

[Qdos Contractor]

If a contract terminates early and the contractor still gets paid then this will reaffirm the existence of MOO for the duration of the contract. It is a question often asked by HMRC during an IR35 enquiry.

[Support Monkey]

I don't know why people get so wound up about notice periods,

Yes i know they can have cancellation clauses or its the principle of the matter but seriously who cares, and yes the contract could get canned tomorrow or could run for 10 years but i get paid a shed load of money to turn up and do a job so to spend time worrying about a few weeks money its beyond me and to be honest i think it comes down to peoples insecurity "will i get another contract"," will i be on the bench" maybe anyone having these insecurities should take a proper job where notice periods are the norm

[malvolio]

@spacecadet - too much wrong in that post to worry about trying to answer it all, but in terms of "you can't just let yourself be shat on by all and sundry. " I have yet to find myself in the position where I would get more money by chasing a early termination penalty than I would by getting on with my next contract.

YMMV. Deal with it as you will but I prefer my approach. Neither of us is wrong, but mine is a reasonabele IR35 defence should it be necessary.

[Support Monkey]

@spacecadet - too much wrong in that post to worry about trying to answer it all, but in terms of "you can't just let yourself be shat on by all and sundry. " I have yet to find myself in the position where I would get more money by chasing a early termination penalty than I would by getting on with my next contract.

YMMV. Deal with it as you will but I prefer my approach. Neither of us is wrong, but mine is a reasonabele IR35 defence should it be necessary.

Exactly

[Spacecadet]

I have yet to find myself in the position where I would get more money by chasing a early termination penalty than I would by getting on with my next contract.

Takes 10 minutes to fire off an invoice.

Then you've got a couple of months before any chasing is actually needed

[psychocandy]

Takes 10 minutes to fire off an invoice.

Then you've got a couple of months before any chasing is actually needed

I agree with Spacey here. Why not give it a blast? Not suggesting devoting your life to it (like that kitty fella in the other thread) after all.

Also, I dont see how getting paid a contractual termination clause is going to be a pointer to IR35.

After all, try phoning vodaphone and telling them your cancelling your phone contract from today - it wont happen. The contract you signed allows them to charge you for a notice period whether you intend to use the phone or not.

[malvolio]

Also, I dont see how getting paid a contractual termination clause is going to be a pointer to IR35.

Because the client will not have usd the "Notice of Termination" option, he will have used the "Immediate termination for any cause" part of the contract. Therefore no extant contract, no notice owed. How hard is that to understand?

Also, since we're all such expert businessmen, how would it sit with a client if you sued them for something you're possibly not owed. What chances of going back the next time they need your skills? Way better business decision not to burn bridges. And if they aren't likely to want you back, could that be why they terminated early and aren't going to pay you anyway?

Now can we drop this, it's getting tedious.

[Spacecadet]

Because the client will not have usd the "Notice of Termination" option, he will have used the "Immediate termination for any cause"

What contract has an "Any Reason" termination clause?