Should I Quit?

[GillsMan]

To be fair, I don't think I was completely talking out of my arse (just partially out of my arse) - though of course you're right I have no experience of an IR35 investigation.

I was just thinking of client control which I understood to be an IR35 pointer, and consequently I always try to ensure that I dictate the way I approach my work.

I was thinking along the lines that a client who's telling you when to have lunch, to carry his laptop, what to do and when, was likely to be telling you how to do things, and that's what I was thinking was an IR35 pointer theoretically.

I dunno, there's plenty of things that I think HMRC probably won't know, but that doesn't stop me ensuring that I try my hardest to differenciate myself as a business from my permie 'colleagues'. E.g. in emails to my client's clients, I never refer to my client as "we" or "us", always by their name. Of course, HMRC are hardly likely to stumble on one of my emails and go "hah! You said "we", you DO work for <ClientABC>!!". But I guess it's just a way I approach my work.

Happy to accept that it's probably a bit OTT and has no bearing on IR35 though!

[Mr.Whippy]

When I went through one a few years ago, HMRC did NOT ask questions about stuff like that.

What I'm getting at is that people who spout advice about 'don't carry anything for your line manager, you'll get caught with IR35' are basically talking out of their arses, so take their advice with a pinch of salt.

Just because you've been through an investigation doesn't automatically mean you know anything/everything either, does it?

If I was the OP, I'd tell this dick where to stick his contract and walk.

[TestMangler]

Just because you've been through an investigation doesn't automatically mean you know anything/everything either, does it?



If I was the OP, I'd tell this dick where to stick his contract and walk.

1. Don't recall saying I did know everything about it, but I know a tulip load more than someone who hasn't.

2. Completely agree.

[Scrag Meister]

Just tell him if he wants you to act like his bitch then you'll have to charge your working-for-a-bitch rate.

Equates to the same thing though.

If I were you and things don't improve, I'd be looking and then move.

Do you have any form of relationship with his boss? Speak to him if your manager is not taking any notice of your polite requests.

[psychocandy]

When I went through one a few years ago, HMRC did NOT ask questions about stuff like that.

They sent a list of questions to my client co (but nothing to do with the usual expected canteen and car park questions) who replied to every question with 'refer to contract' and then covered the whole thing with a letter stating that they did not, nor ever did have a contract in place of any kind between them and Mr T Mangler.

What I'm getting at is that people who spout advice about 'don't carry anything for your line manager, you'll get caught with IR35' are basically talking out of their arses, so take their advice with a pinch of salt.

Having said that, if someone asked me to carry their laptop, I may do it out of common courtesy, if they were, for example, carrying my coffee and bacon roll and had to open a door for me

More than likely, i'd tell them to take a flying ****, which is IR35 neutral.

Never understood the relevance of using the canteen. After all, if a company has visitors it usually lets them use the canteen.

[lukemg]

Yes – You probably should.
I wouldn’t though, unless I had another contract in place, I wouldn’t give him the satisfaction.
I would stand up to him though and I would hand over all responsibility for the work allocation to him. Just say – do you want me to stop the other work and start this when he asks you to do something. Work on that until completion or told otherwise and don’t kill yourself.
Get up and leave for lunch, if challenged just tell him you are going for lunch and keep walking.
If they want to bin you off, that is their choice. If it happens I would be recording the actions of this nobber (without any emotion whatsoever) and communicate to someone senior on your way out. They will know all about him anyway and either this is the culture of the place (phoneys4you) and they like it or he has been sidelined because no-one knows what to do with him.
There are a thousand ways to give the illusion of being helpful while driving this guy nuts – think Fletch in Porridge.
Soon as you get a contract offer to bail immediately, if they keep you to notice, do as little as possible or just walk, they deserve it.

[MarillionFan]

Is this for real ? I cannot believe anybody could be so narcissist in a corporate environment.

If I was you I would have walked out the moment I was told to carry his laptop. Carry your own laptop!

Love it. There's a broken laptop straight away.

If you stay, you're an idiot.

FWIW: I've been contracting 23 years and have only come across this at 4 sites. Each time, I've ripped into the guy within the first few days. Only once has that resulted in us "parting ways" early. On the other 3 occasions, Mr DickHead has taken his attitude elsewhere, to some complete muppet (usually a permie) who'll put up with that kind of bullying. Still, that's me, not you. Your call.

WHS. I'd have ripped him a new one the first second he started acting like a dick. Life's too short.

[2BIT]

having thought about this I would probably stick around if there were a few weeks left purely so I could **** with the guy obviously whilst invoicing but if there was months to go would walk, permies shouldn't have to put up with that tulip so as a contractor you really shouldn't

[TestMangler]

Never understood the relevance of using the canteen. After all, if a company has visitors it usually lets them use the canteen.

It doesn't have any relevance but a lot of contractors seem to think it does. In the same way as people start an arguement about IR35 by saying, "If I engaged the services of a plumber...."

Means f**k all to me, you and strangely enough HMRC. As I said in a later post, that is NOT the kind of questions they ask clients.

A lot of getting out of an IR35 investigation is down to what the client says (mine told them to 'refer to the contract')and how the rest of it is handled. I had insurance and refused to engage in any dialogue with HMRC, but that didn't stop them phoning constantly and asking you to answer questions, which you have to repeatedly refuse to answer and refer them to your representitives. It gets them really pissed off but it paid off for me in the end.

[Bright Spark]

Hi,

I am an IT contractor (Banking) with about 3 yrs of contracting experience. I have just started a new contract at a reputed bank and have found myself in tulip.

Thanks

In contracting their will always be times when you land a contract that doesn't fit
with what the job spec is, or you end up working with really weird people especially
in banking.

main thing is to be able to learn and handle all these situations, I know running away
and avoiding them seems easier but if you can truly manage yourself and control your
thinking about the situation you will always be able to deal with people like this in the
future.

Maybe start laughing at him to reduce his power over you, start making excuses like
you've pulled your back and you can't carry his laptop etc, slowly you need to gain
your authority back over him.

At the end of the day your still getting paid, and in six months time you
will probably be on another contract and this would have been a good learning experience.