Outstanding Invoices & Umbrella's

[Xtrain]

Forget the duck test...

I think that if a court were asked to decide they would ignore the small print and use the the duck test. The duck test suggest that you are wrong.

tim

Having a signed employment contract courtesy of Parasol + Parasol payslips showing deducted employers NI + evidence of paying sick pay + joining their Group Pension plan (for employees only) might just negate the need to go to court!

[Mordac]

Yes actually there is, why are you so stupid?

As a matter of FACT Parasol do employ you, you sign a contract of employment (definitely not probably!) with them (they email it to you when you register online) and they do pay sick pay. And i know this because I used them when I started contracting. Obviously you haven't used them and you don't know what you are talking about. I would imagine ALL PAYE brollys (i.e. non composite, not ltd) operate this way although I'm not sure as I haven't used any others.

Obviously the brollys don't advertise the sick pay etc.. stuff as it could cost them a fortune. Rather they rely on idiots like you to sprout this kind of rubbish.

Anything else you think you understand and don't?

Actually I was with Parasol for just over a year, until a few months ago.
They don't pay sick pay (see this link: http://www.parasolit.co.uk/default.a...id=63&kbaid=72 and you do not sign a contract of employment. You may think you do, but you don't. If you'd like to post the text of your email here for our collective perusal, feel free.
Finally, if you read the info on their website carefully, you may well come across the following paragraph, which explains what they do:

"An umbrella structure provides an alternative method of accounting to personal service companies and sole trader arrangements. Monies we receive will be passed on to you in the most tax efficient way allowed by current PAYE regulations. We will maximise relief for expenses and pensions from income tax and national insurance contributions by continuous monitoring by our in-house tax advisers".

Nowhere does it say they are your employer. Read that sentence again slowly and absorb. Actually, I'm not even sure that an employer can legally charge an employee for doing their payroll, but that's moving off in a different direction.
Bottom line, I don't doubt you believe you are an employee of Parasol, but if you don't believe me, why not ring them and ask them directly.
When the answer comes back, don't feel you need to apologise or anything.

[VectraMan]

As a matter of FACT Parasol do employ you, you sign a contract of employment (definitely not probably!) with them (they email it to you when you register online) and they do pay sick pay.

Just looking at the Parasol FAQ and it says they pay the statutory sick pay, but no more. I took a day off sick whilst I worked through them, and it didn't occur to me that I'd get anything for it. I wouldn't anyway as SSP only kicks in after 3 days.

Edited cos I realised I was being an idiot.

[Mordac]

I think that if a court were asked to decide they would ignore the small print and use the the duck test. The duck test suggest that you are wrong.

tim

Why? They operate a PAYE service for freelance contractors. Nothing more. By all means try and get some maternity pay out of them, and see how far you get. Parasol aren't stupid enough to leave themselves open to something like this. Read your contracts again, they will explicitly state a contract of services, not employment. FFS, contractors (of all people) should be able to tell the difference.

[Mordac]

Parasol payslips showing deducted employers NI

Employers NI is deducted from your gross, not paid by Parasol. Please tell me you understand that.
Sadly, although the wheel may still be turning, the hamster has long since snuffed it.

[Xtrain]

I'm amazed....

Actually I was with Parasol for just over a year, until a few months ago.
They don't pay sick pay (see this link: http://www.parasolit.co.uk/default.a...id=63&kbaid=72 and you do not sign a contract of employment. You may think you do, but you don't. If you'd like to post the text of your email here for our collective perusal, feel free.
Finally, if you read the info on their website carefully, you may well come across the following paragraph, which explains what they do:

"An umbrella structure provides an alternative method of accounting to personal service companies and sole trader arrangements. Monies we receive will be passed on to you in the most tax efficient way allowed by current PAYE regulations. We will maximise relief for expenses and pensions from income tax and national insurance contributions by continuous monitoring by our in-house tax advisers".

Nowhere does it say they are your employer. Read that sentence again slowly and absorb. Actually, I'm not even sure that an employer can legally charge an employee for doing their payroll, but that's moving off in a different direction.
Bottom line, I don't doubt you believe you are an employee of Parasol, but if you don't believe me, why not ring them and ask them directly.
When the answer comes back, don't feel you need to apologise or anything.

The Parasol FAQ says "Other than SSP you receive no sick pay" - I think the salient point is "Other than SSP"....SSP is statutory sick pay that is paid by EMPLOYERS to EMPLOYEES when they are sick and it kicks in after 3 days duration. Parasol have paid me sick pay becuase i asked them - they will not volunteer it. Have a look at your Parasol "employment contract" as it details SSP, holiday pay etc... Parasol in their wisdom place their employment contracts online and hope you don't read them. You obviously didn't. You can't place a link to it here as it is on a password protected site.

Better still consult your P45 issued by Parasol when you left them. A P45 can only be issued by your EMPLOYER.

So in summary even though you, like me, have an employment contract, have had tax and NI deducted under a PAYE regime, been entitled too full employment rights (e.g. sick pay) and have been issued a P45 you still think you were not employed by them! If that is so, and you obviously believe it, who was your employer at that time and what exactly do you put under the Employers name on your tax return / mortgage form etc...?

[Xtrain]

Employers NI

Employers NI is deducted from your gross, not paid by Parasol. Please tell me you understand that.
Sadly, although the wheel may still be turning, the hamster has long since snuffed it.

Employers NI is deducted from your gross by your EMPLOYER. Who deducted yours?

[Mordac]

Employers NI is deducted from your gross by your EMPLOYER. Who deducted yours?

No it isn't, if you are an employee it is a percentage of your gross, paid by the employer. An umbrella company will calculate your gross salary whereby gross+employers NI=the amount received from the agency.

Is it sinking in yet?

[Xtrain]

No

No it isn't, if you are an employee it is a percentage of your gross, paid by the employer. An umbrella company will calculate your gross salary whereby gross+employers NI=the amount received from the agency.

Is it sinking in yet?

No it isn't but maybe you are just slow....

So who was your employer?

[Mordac]

The Parasol FAQ says "Other than SSP you receive no sick pay" - I think the salient point is "Other than SSP"....SSP is statutory sick pay that is paid by EMPLOYERS to EMPLOYEES when they are sick and it kicks in after 3 days duration. Parasol have paid me sick pay becuase i asked them - they will not volunteer it. Have a look at your Parasol "employment contract" as it details SSP, holiday pay etc... Parasol in their wisdom place their employment contracts online and hope you don't read them. You obviously didn't. You can't place a link to it here as it is on a password protected site.

Better still consult your P45 issued by Parasol when you left them. A P45 can only be issued by your EMPLOYER.

So in summary even though you, like me, have an employment contract, have had tax and NI deducted under a PAYE regime, been entitled too full employment rights (e.g. sick pay) and have been issued a P45 you still think you were not employed by them! If that is so, and you obviously believe it, who was your employer at that time and what exactly do you put under the Employers name on your tax return / mortgage form etc...?

Right, where to start.
>SSP is statutory sick pay that is paid by EMPLOYERS to EMPLOYEES when they are sick

Wrong, it's paid by the government. Or more accurately, it's claimed from whoever the DHSS is these days(DWP?)


>Better still consult your P45 issued by Parasol when you left them. A P45 can only be issued by your EMPLOYER.

Also wrong. Anyone who provides payroll services for you can provide you with a P45. (If you have the right software you can print one off yourself, FFS.) Usually that would mean an accountant, but in this case it could also be a brolly.


>Parasol in their wisdom place their employment contracts online and hope you don't read them.

Where? I've just logged in and I can't see any link to "My Employment Contract" because it doesn't exist.