Outstanding Invoices & Umbrella's

[Xtrain]

This is hard work...

Right, where to start.
>SSP is statutory sick pay that is paid by EMPLOYERS to EMPLOYEES when they are sick

Wrong, it's paid by the government. Or more accurately, it's claimed from whoever the DHSS is these days(DWP?)


>Better still consult your P45 issued by Parasol when you left them. A P45 can only be issued by your EMPLOYER.

Also wrong. Anyone who provides payroll services for you can provide you with a P45. (If you have the right software you can print one off yourself, FFS.) Usually that would mean an accountant, but in this case it could also be a brolly.


>Parasol in their wisdom place their employment contracts online and hope you don't read them.

Where? I've just logged in and I can't see any link to "My Employment Contract" because it doesn't exist.

SSP is paid by employers not the govt or any governmental body. In certain circumstances an employer can re-claim it but it has a number of rules of which most companies will fail. It is paid, administered and re-claimed (if possible) by employers. It is a legal requirement of ALL employers that it is paid and that is why Parasol have and will pay it if requested. It legally kicks in after 3 days absence so amazingly Parasol pay it (if claimed) after 3 days absence.

Payroll service providers can issue P45's on behalf of companies but on the bottom of the form is a box entitled "Employers name, address and Postcode". Whoevers name is in that box was your employer for the period that that P45 relates too. In my case for my Parasol "gig" it has "Parasol IT plc" becuase they where my employer!!!! The name of the payroll services provider and/or accountant who do NOT employ you will NOT be in there as they are not your employer.

If you cannot find your employment contract then that doesn't surprise me. Try looking for your contract of service instead and see how successful you are in finding that. Or don't bother becuase you won't find that either becuase there isn't one.

You still can't name who you were employed by though in that period and I would suggest your tax form will have Parasol IT Plc on it just like mine did.

To be honest if you are so adamant that you weren't employed by them then good luck to you but don't flame people who know a lot more about this subject than you.

[Mordac]

To be honest if you are so adamant that you weren't employed by them then good luck to you but don't flame people who know a lot more about this subject than you.

So that would be you then? As I said in an earlier post (which you conveniently dodged) why not ring them up and ask about your employee rights. Please post the response on here. Failing that copy and paste the text from your "employment contract" which states you are an employee of Parasol.
If you think you're an expert, bring it on. Don't forget the brain cell next time though.

[ParasolService]

The Brolly View

Hi,

My name is Jon and I work for Parasol in a project and service delivery role. I felt it might be useful if I added my 2p's worth. It is my personal view however but based on how we operate and my understanding of the market and legislation.

I woud like to point out that I believe Parasol is more transparent than most (some co's don't even state fees) but we don't work on a level playing field.

Do Parasol employ contractors? - in essence yes. Our contract between worker and Parasol is in general terms an employment contract but does have aspects that seek to balance between Agency obligations (e.g. walking off site before notice period) and Employment Law. The main problem is that the economic structure, current taxation law and the nature of UK Agency/clients realtionships does not allow companies like Parasol to be true Employers with all the bells and whistles. We and others don't make margin on time and thus it is difficult to see where funding for full employment benefits would come from. Would you pay a high fee just for this? Add in the "traditional" contractor model (already discussed in this thread) and we arrive at a complicated situation.

I guess one could argue that Parasol should charge much higher but in reality paying £19.95 for great service (I would say that), basic employment benefits, insurance cover and low hassle is perhaps part of the problem. If we were to charge 8% and provide full sick pay for example, who would take it up? (One for our MD to consider no doubt)

Personally I think the economic future could be different and Agencies operating as they do now becoming difficult to sustain. There will always be niche players in my opinion.

I think Parasol would benefit (and others) from the HMRC really understanding the nature of contracting and not just the taxation issues. We operate at the very open and honest end of the market but we do get frustrated with companies clearly advertising "receipts not needed" and selling on this basis rather than service and quality. If it was a level playing field this practice could not continue.

Despite what seems to be popular opinion we do try and balance our operations between looking after contractors interests and those of the Agencies. Not easy but for instance we do chase debts, recover monies underpaid and credit check Agencies before working with them.

So in summary we do view our consultants as employees but the nature of contracting and the economic landscape confuses the issue. Add in poor legislation and we are doing the best we can (I honesty believe that).

I won't get involved in a protracted debate on here but hope this helps in some way, even if it only puts the (best) brolly side.

Jon

[mcquiggd]

Sorry, what company do you work for again......?

Infomercials on CUK.... whatever next!

[Xtrain]

So that would be you then? As I said in an earlier post (which you conveniently dodged) why not ring them up and ask about your employee rights. Please post the response on here. Failing that copy and paste the text from your "employment contract" which states you are an employee of Parasol.
If you think you're an expert, bring it on. Don't forget the brain cell next time though.

Well now Mordac, Parasol have come on here and said they employed you!! No doubt you can disagree with them as well. And no matter what Parasol say about employment rights like SSP / maternity etc... they have a legal obligation to pay it regardless of what they say and charge. Obviously if everyone did claim they would have to charge accordingly which is basically what they said.

Oh how the Parasol's of this world must love people like yourself.

[rz6bm7]

The bottom line

A Chocolate tea pot.

I chose an umbrella because I needed to bail out of permiedom quickly, a large agency left me few options and I chose Parasol from the few (don't you love agents?) an umbrella is the easiest and safest way to test the water, my LTD is about to get used because I am self employed not a lingering permie.
If the contract had been direct I would have taken the agency to small claims however due to the tiny amount involved ditching Parasol is possibly the best option in my case, this tea pot has melted.

Gent's you can put your handbags away..

[tim123]

Do Parasol employ contractors? - in essence yes. Our contract between worker and Parasol is in general terms an employment contract but does have aspects that seek to balance between Agency obligations (e.g. walking off site before notice period) and Employment Law. The main problem is that the economic structure, current taxation law and the nature of UK Agency/clients realtionships does not allow companies like Parasol to be true Employers with all the bells and whistles. We and others don't make margin on time and thus it is difficult to see where funding for full employment benefits would come from.

The problem with this is that if you *are* the employer (and you seem to be accepting that you are) you don't get to choose whether to offer employment benefits or not. There is no contractual form that you can place in front of your 'employees' that gives you the possibility of opting out of them, any attempt to do so would be void. If the employee of the umbrella wanted to enforce their right to these benefits in court, the brolly would lose (unless it could show that there isn't an employer-employee relationship at all).

A brolly has two choices: either it factors the provision of employment rights into its fee (or an individual retention). Or it takes a chance than none of it 'employees' attempts to enforce their statutory right to employee benefits.

Most choose the latter.

HTH

tim

[Xtrain]

Take a chance

It would seem they are taking a chance and hoping the vast majority don't claim for any rights.

[ASB]

They could be a bit exposed....

Legal entitlement is for 4 weeks paid holidy per annum (or pro rata). SSP is also payable for sick (and proably not reclaimable).

It does seem to me that their model may be a bit flawed. What I would have thought they ought to be doing is charging a rather larger fee and then passing this on as holiday pay or on departure of the employee (as the law generally stipulates).

There was an argument to say "holiday is rolled up into pay" by certain categroeis of employer - but it had to be absolutely crystal clear in the contract of employment.

A recent ECJ decision has ruled this currently unlawful. http://www.pinsentmasons.com/media/561764804.pdf

[Mordac]

Well now Mordac, Parasol have come on here and said they employed you!! No doubt you can disagree with them as well. And no matter what Parasol say about employment rights like SSP / maternity etc... they have a legal obligation to pay it regardless of what they say and charge. Obviously if everyone did claim they would have to charge accordingly which is basically what they said.

Oh how the Parasol's of this world must love people like yourself.

Quite frankly I'm amazed. At their stupidity, that is. All indications are that Parasol (in common with all similar umbrellas) are simply providing a payroll service for freelance contractors, and one of their people comes on here and tells us (in writing) that their clients are actually employees. Thay almost deserve to get stitched up for that. Perhaps someone should volunteer to get preggers and claim maternity pay from them.
XTrain, it seems I owe you some sort of apology. Mind you, the first person who claims will almost certainly be the last.