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Attitude towards working hours

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    #51
    Originally posted by Greg Longshaft View Post
    "I think thats the point most people are missing, even though we do get controlled over hours in some respect, we should not be controlled as a LTD company, but in the real world there are some grey areas."
    Agree.

    And our aim has to be to minimise the grey areas as far as possible to reduce any potential liability.

    If I'm contracted to bill daily, on say a max 37.5 hours a week, then that's what I aim for. If the end client then wants to apply restrictions ( start 9, end 5:30, mandatory lunch time ), then I'd have misgivings. I'd choose the hours I work to fit in as far as possible with the client to avoid any inconvenience, but other factors apply - ie if it's a longish drive, I like to avoid traffic. If the client site open early in those circumstances, I like to get in early, leave earlier. Given it's almost inevitable that work will involve interacting with permies, it benefits both parties to overlap as much as possible.

    Had a situation once when a PM in a client I was working for ranted to the agency - because I wasn't abiding by the core hours permies were contractually obliged to work. Agency then ranted at me. I pointed out I'd fully worked the contracted hours, I'd given the end client additional hours free of charge where I deemed it to be in both parties benefit. Agent then claimed core hours as a mantra, until I asked him to explicitly tell me the contract clause that contained them. End of discussion. As it turned out, other PMs within the same client had no such problem with other contractors doing exactly the same - just this one guy had a stick firmly up his arse. The PM left the client a few weeks later.

    If it was a major problem for the end client, then the simple answer I gave to the agent was that the contract would need to be amended to include those core hours, with an adjustment to the rate to reflect inconvenience / potential IR35 liability incurred on my companies side. Which I knew end client and agent would never do, plus I wouldn't have accepted any core hours clause.

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      #52
      Originally posted by perplexed View Post
      If it was a major problem for the end client, then the simple answer I gave to the agent was that the contract would need to be amended to include those core hours, with an adjustment to the rate to reflect inconvenience / potential IR35 liability incurred on my companies side. Which I knew end client and agent would never do, plus I wouldn't have accepted any core hours clause.
      and your card would probably be marked as being a pain in the ass!

      I'm not convinced being asked to do specific core hours indicates control. What is more important is how you do the work, do they control that?

      Comment


        #53
        Originally posted by jmo21 View Post
        and your card would probably be marked as being a pain in the ass!

        I'm not convinced being asked to do specific core hours indicates control. What is more important is how you do the work, do they control that?
        Probably. Except in this case, the Pm was the one being the utter arse, as evidenced by his leaving shortly afterwards.

        I don't believe core hours would be an ultimate indicator of control. IMO, it would however be an element of control. Why let little things like that add up? As I said, I'm aware of the need at times to interact with permies, hence I always schedule my hours to provide the maximum overlap. That's my choice, rather than being mandated to.

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          #54
          Originally posted by perplexed View Post
          Probably. Except in this case, the Pm was the one being the utter arse, as evidenced by his leaving shortly afterwards.

          I don't believe core hours would be an ultimate indicator of control. IMO, it would however be an element of control. Why let little things like that add up? As I said, I'm aware of the need at times to interact with permies, hence I always schedule my hours to provide the maximum overlap. That's my choice, rather than being mandated to.
          How long was this contract for and did you get a renewal?
          Cloud Computing - Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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            #55
            Originally posted by monobrow View Post
            How long was this contract for and did you get a renewal?
            Initially six months, and yes, got a renewal.

            Comment


              #56
              Originally posted by perplexed View Post
              Initially six months, and yes, got a renewal.
              public sector?
              Cloud Computing - Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

              Comment


                #57
                Originally posted by monobrow View Post
                public sector?
                Private.

                I was also quite daring one day and wore white socks...

                Comment


                  #58
                  Originally posted by perplexed View Post
                  Private.

                  I was also quite daring one day and wore white socks...
                  IB?
                  Cloud Computing - Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

                  Comment


                    #59
                    Originally posted by monobrow View Post
                    IB?
                    Nah.

                    Comment


                      #60
                      Originally posted by perplexed View Post
                      Nah.
                      Ah ha!
                      Cloud Computing - Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

                      Comment

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