They DO NOT need to hold a copy of your passport if you are opted out.

[The Agents View]

They should just say "Our policy is that if you are not willing or able to produce a passport or national identity document which establishes that you have the right to live and work in the UK then the agency is not going to do business with you. End of discussion."

Ardesco: - The above is the end of it really - If you don't like it, or won't do it, you won't be working through me, or many other agencies any time soon. Naturally I can understand your concern, but at the end of the day, assuming the business can demonstrate its data security credentials, then it going to cause you more hassle that it's worth.

Now all I need are your bank account details and sort code, and I can wire the monaiiii to you immediately.....

[SorenLorensen]

assuming the business can demonstrate its data security credentials

That's a huge assumption for a lot of us to make. How do you demonstrate this?

[TykeMerc]

That's a huge assumption for a lot of us to make. How do you demonstrate this?

I never make that assumption, in fact I tend to assume that unless they're ListX that they're not secure. It's never stopped me from getting a contract.

[SueEllen]

I don't have a problem with producing my passport so that an agent can verify who I am. I do have an issue with agents insisting that they need to keep a copy of my passport for no reason, especially when they just want me to scan in and email/fax it to them without ever actually seeing me.

I have that issue as well.

However until such time an agency hires a contractor without seeing them using a bogus National ID document which they have received by fax or scanned and the agency involved is fined heavily and made a public example off, the practise will continue.

What it comes down to is somebody in legal thought it would be a good idea to hold everybody's passport on record so they have all started doing it for no reason in an attempt to cover their arse legally when in actual fact they are doing no such thing (and in some cases potentially making a rod for their own back).

BTW there is nothing stopping you from doing a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act to see what the agency does with such personal documents.

Then complaining if you are unhappy - ICO - Complaints Data Protection

[ASB]

You don't need to if you are engaging my company, the only entity that needs to confirm that I am eligible to work in the UK is my employer (which is my company not you). It's my company that is at risk and the one that will get dragged through the courts if I'm not eligible to work in the UK.

I don't actually agree with that. There are a number of issues

- As a consumer of services I may have an ethical policy which dictates that I have satisfied myself that anybody doing any on-site work for me is legit. e.g. I might be prepared to be a party in potential exploitation. If you don't want to provide services on that basis that is absolutely fine, I'll go elsewhere. Have you ever noticed just how much bad press companies who are discovered to be obtaining things - in good faith - from illegal sweatshops end up getting? I might want to avoid that potential hassle.

- If it turns out that whoever you have supplied as my security guard or whatever is illegal and get carted off by the UK border agency then this gives me an additional problem to deal with, one that could easily have been avoided.

- Halfway through building the absolutely critical factory extension it turns out that all your excellent fabricators are in fact being pursued by the borders agency and do a bunk. A trifle inconvenient as you get locked up for trafficking leaving me with an unfinished project.

Of course, if you don't want to do business on the basis your clients want to, however unreasonable you believe the demands are that is absolutely fine. Just walk away.

Also, if I am undertaking some project which involves some of your staff on site, and they do turn out to be illegal, then the UKBA can attack me too. They may not be my employee, but they can be a worker under the terms of the relevant legislation. Yes it would be difficult, but it would not impossible. Am I likely to want to do business with somebody who want to force me to take that risk.

All that said the real problem is surely simply that who is culpable for the illegal is spread to wide. Certainly if you supply services provided by an illegal that really should never be my problem, but under the relevant legislation it can be.

[Ardesco]

I don't actually agree with that. There are a number of issues

- As a consumer of services I may have an ethical policy which dictates that I have satisfied myself that anybody doing any on-site work for me is legit. e.g. I might be prepared to be a party in potential exploitation. If you don't want to provide services on that basis that is absolutely fine, I'll go elsewhere. Have you ever noticed just how much bad press companies who are discovered to be obtaining things - in good faith - from illegal sweatshops end up getting? I might want to avoid that potential hassle.

- If it turns out that whoever you have supplied as my security guard or whatever is illegal and get carted off by the UK border agency then this gives me an additional problem to deal with, one that could easily have been avoided.

- Halfway through building the absolutely critical factory extension it turns out that all your excellent fabricators are in fact being pursued by the borders agency and do a bunk. A trifle inconvenient as you get locked up for trafficking leaving me with an unfinished project.

Of course, if you don't want to do business on the basis your clients want to, however unreasonable you believe the demands are that is absolutely fine. Just walk away.

Also, if I am undertaking some project which involves some of your staff on site, and they do turn out to be illegal, then the UKBA can attack me too. They may not be my employee, but they can be a worker under the terms of the relevant legislation. Yes it would be difficult, but it would not impossible. Am I likely to want to do business with somebody who want to force me to take that risk.

All that said the real problem is surely simply that who is culpable for the illegal is spread to wide. Certainly if you supply services provided by an illegal that really should never be my problem, but under the relevant legislation it can be.

So how is the agency telling the end client that my eligibility to work in the UK has been checked any different from my company telling the agency hat my eligibility to work in the UK has been checked (I'll give you a clue, It's not)? In the scenario's you put forward above the end client would need to check my eligibility to satisfy themselves that all is fine which makes the agency's part pointless.

The point is that agency's hire temps who are on their payroll. A temp will need to be checked out and have their identity verified to ensure they are legal to work in the UK, unfortunately agents are trying to apply these rules to Ltd Co contractors wrongly.

I would also point out once more that I don't mind somebody looking at my passport to verify who I am, the issue I have is with them keeping a copy of it!

More worryingly we have an agent who has in this thread said he doesn't give a toss what the law is, if he was to employ me he would want a copy of my passport to keep on file. Surely that's a worrying statement that goes to prove that people really need to start standing up for themselves and reasserting their rights?

How illegal does something have to become for it not to be alright any more...

[Wanderer]

More worryingly we have an agent who has in this thread said he doesn't give a toss what the law is, if he was to employ me he would want a copy of my passport to keep on file. Surely that's a worrying statement that goes to prove that people really need to start standing up for themselves and reasserting their rights?

Does it worry you that your motor insurance company keeps a copy of your driving license on file? You are going on about it like they are trying to steal you soul or something. If they took my passport off me, I would object but I really can't see what's wrong with them having a copy of it as proof of identity and right to work in the UK before they do business.

Do you think you would get a job working for a major bank if all they had to prove your ID was a glance at your passport?

If you were subcontracting some work to a load of Bobs, would you ask to see their id and right to work? What if it turned out that they were using false documents and had no right to live and work in the UK. What if they then skipped the country without paying a penny in tax and HMRC came after you for the money? What evidence would you have to defend yourself against allegations that you knowingly engaged with people who had no right to live and work in the UK? What if they accused you of being complicit in the whole thing, engaging people on a nudge and a wink with no questions asked?

How illegal does something have to become for it not to be alright any more...

If something is illegal the it's not allright. Simples.

However, I don't see that there is anything illegal about keeping a copy of someone's passport, so long as the keeper complies with the Data Protection Act. If you have evidence that someone has failed to comply then report them to the information commissioner along with your evidence or just do business with them in the first place.

[Sockpuppet]

You Sir, are EXACTLY right. We DO NOT NEED to hold a copy of your Passport if you are opted out.

However.....

If part of my service offering is to be able to prove your eligibility to work in the UK, prior to starting with my client, then you are NOT starting until I get that proof. That's the end of the conversation. If you don't have anything to hide, then why would you refuse to show your passport, and allow me to take a copy so that I can show due dilligence if and when I'm asked?

I agree, that arguing that you are breaking the law, is wrong. But making sure that a client is not at risk, by providing another checking point, and therefore a level of protection, is just good due dilligence.

I'm not fussed as to whether you agree with the above, I don't even care if the law states this and that - the reality, is that if you refuse to provide a copy of your passport, you won't be getting the contract - end of.

You can have a copy of mine if I can have a copy of yours. After all I wouldn't want to work for an agent that could be in the UK illegally!

I'm not fussed whether you agree to the above. The reality is that if the agent demands a copy of the passport I'll go direct and they won't be getting their cut.

[SorenLorensen]

Do you think you would get a job working for a major bank if all they had to prove your ID was a glance at your passport?

I keep hearing this about major banks. I've contracted at 3 major banks in the past 6 years and not once been asked for my passport or had to prove my ID in those cases.

[Olly]

Slightly off topic....but for a Vodafone role through Alexander Mann I was asked for a copy of my passport including, strangely, a copy of the first page and inside cover.

The day before the contract started they called me up to say it wasn't enough and needed a copy of the outside cover too. That's the only time in my agency dealings I've seriously dug in against the stupidity. I told the girl under no circumstances was I going to do what they'd asked and that I'd take my passport in on the first day to Vodafone. Told her if they wanted a cover scan before then to scan hers as it would be as identical as all the other millions of modern UK EU ones.

Guess what, client didn't march me to the photocopier on arrival. Funny that!