Newbie to this game and beginning to loathe recruitment agents..

[Cata1yst]

Someone please give me some hope! Before I burn down a recruitment agency after nailing the doors shut

I suppose I'd better lay the scene. I've returned to the UK from the Netherlands and Switzerland after a period of 4 years working in Pharmaceutical IT, quite a specialised area I know, but I have many transferable skills among them PM, Test Manager, Change, Service Delivery, Sys Admin blah blah

So in August I decided to leave NL get off the Corporate greasy pole and get my head down obtain a Prince 2 to go with the real world experience and join the wonderful world of IT contractors. I'm just not cut out for the permie land of bum banditry. I nearly topped one senior manager in my previous company after he consistantly blocked my career progress, anyway..

Someone on another thread said:-

When you were at school did you sit at the back of the class (and piss about) but still got the top mark in the exam? If "yes" then go contracting.

Yup that's me

I came back with a sizeable warchest and it's rapidly running out and I'm starting to get to squeeky bum moment. I know I cant take the continual brown nosing of a day to day permie position anymore, it's just not in me.

The story that's coming across everytime I speak to a recruitment agent is "oh you'd be perfect for x role, please change your CV. So I change the CV and I then spend days chasing these muppets to find out the "hiring manager" of the client is either not answering or they've pulled the position."

This has happened x3 times now in the last x3 weeks, all different agents/companies and Im wondering if they're just talking BS?

I spoke to one agent and he forwarded my CV as one of 3 out of 400 applicants, 2 weeks later another agent has a similar role that just "smells wrong" in the same company?! (Job description was virtually word for word)

So far I've applied for 50 odd positions every Cover Letter + CV tailored, and the agents seem happy enough when I call them to discuss my CV + the position, I'm not applying for just anything and I do match the profiles!! What am I doing wrong?

Agents NEVER return calls when they say they will and you end up nailing their ass to the chair by continually calling them for updates. Are they just promising things they just can't deliver?

I'm thinking of going back to Europe, perhaps Switzerland even if it's hitchhiking, living in a cave and eating mountain goats. At least they treat you with some respect, dignity and they CALL you when they say they will.

[2BIT]

the majority of calls are probably fishing calls. if for example you are so perfect for a role why is the agent asking you to change your cv?

what you should probably be doing is not answering withheld number calls or apply to spam email jobs, you should also be getting an idea of who the client is. if the role sounds good and the agent doesn't get back to you it may be that they are sitting on your cv so in that instance it may be worth trying to find out what other agencies are supplying for that role and trying to go through them.

I'm not having a dig at you or agents but no there are two types of calls: real and fishing. the fishing calls generally follow a different pattern which you begin to recognise. you should start trying to screen these calls to stop you wasting your time, or maybe test the water by not rushing to do anything an agent asks

if you suspect it may be a fishing call (withheld number?) then before they start their spiel say 'sorry i'm really busy/on the road/in a meeting at the mo, can i call you back?' if they say 'i'll call you' and they don't then perhaps they weren't doing anything more than fishing, if they give you a number then great

there's lots on this forum about agents tricks, i'm not saying they are tricking you but it sounds familiar- we've all been there at some stage

[Cata1yst]

Firstly I have some form of sense not to deal with witheld numbers or spam e-mails. These are positions I apply for directly, that I have the skills and experience and that fit my requirements. I've had a couple of fishing but they get a straight "no thanks." Thing is if someone helps me I will help them, but nought given for free and I do have contacts in Europe hiring.

Couple of times CV changes have happened when I've hit the agent immediately after they posted the position to a job site (within 1hr) to try and get at them before the 400 odd retards applying for the position with no where near the required skills. Normally the agents have lost all faith by then. So I send them what I have discuss the differences, prove I have that experience then change the CV.

So the CV needs a couple of minor tweaks to hit their keyword bingo quota (idiots, this game annoys me the most to get a conversation you need ALL the requirements. Does the client/agent not realise no one has 99% of any set of job requirements. Every role is different. It then comes down who can BS the agent the most to get past to talk to a client ???)

I have held out and dragged out making the changes to the CV (I will not change the CV unless I'm pretty certain it's worth it, and the agent is genuine)

Recently an agent applied more pressure so I expect that was the real deal. One of the positions in process currently and I'll update you if it's been a waste of time yet again! As of yet he's not returned a call he promised, so I'm pretty sure I'll be moving on.

Definitely real deal every time I have numbers, e-mail addresses etc, and they return at least x1 call. So not a random call out of the blue.

If I go via a different agent for the same position I have the problem of x2 agents possibly putting my CV forward, then problems with a potential client, well and possibly annoying a good agent.

So my point is I make it so easy for them. I don't apply for something I'm not able to do, I don't waste their time and I get to the point.

I change things when required and if I contact them and I get the wrong idea from their job desc then I admit that I cannot meet their requirements and thank them for their time. I expect the same if I am forwarded and the client says "sorry not what I'm looking for."

What else can I do apart from beat them with a large pole? They want the cash, so do I. We both agree I have the skills and can do the job, so WTF is going on? Why are they not telling me?

Beginning to think go direct might be an option. Cut out the agent.

[nomadd]

I'm thinking of going back to Europe, perhaps Switzerland even if it's hitchhiking, living in a cave and eating mountain goats. At least they treat you with some respect, dignity and they CALL you when they say they will.

This^

(Unless you can find a way to adjust to the many joys of contracting - agents being just one of them. )

[RichardCranium]

Cata1yst, what you're describing is what life is like dealing with agents and applying for gigs through the job boards.

Someone please give me some hope! Before I burn down a recruitment agency after nailing the doors shut

PM me the address and I'll bring the petrol.

[craig1]

It's nearly pointless chasing an agent once they have your CV for a role and have said it has been submitted to a client. If they have good news, they'll call. If they have genuine "hold" news and you're a good prospect, they'll call. If they have bad news, they won't call. If they promise to call to update you on your CV's progress and don't then it's usual to assume you've gone nowhere.

Regardless of how good a relationship you have with 9/10 agents, the first indication they have from the client that you're not getting the role is the sign for them to pretend you never existed, refuse to call you and refuse to take your calls. Next time they have a role though and you get through their keyword search then you become their best friend again.

That said, I have a very short list of 5 agents (not agencies, agents) who I can guarantee will take my calls because I've built up a good working relationship with them. For me, that's the key to the contracting lark, find the good agents, get a good reputation built with them and make sure you keep the relationship alive if you're not currently in a role through them.

[Cata1yst]

It's nearly pointless chasing an agent once they have your CV for a role and have said it has been submitted to a client. If they have good news, they'll call. If they have genuine "hold" news and you're a good prospect, they'll call. If they have bad news, they won't call. If they promise to call to update you on your CV's progress and don't then it's usual to assume you've gone nowhere.

Regardless of how good a relationship you have with 9/10 agents, the first indication they have from the client that you're not getting the role is the sign for them to pretend you never existed, refuse to call you and refuse to take your calls. Next time they have a role though and you get through their keyword search then you become their best friend again.

That said, I have a very short list of 5 agents (not agencies, agents) who I can guarantee will take my calls because I've built up a good working relationship with them. For me, that's the key to the contracting lark, find the good agents, get a good reputation built with them and make sure you keep the relationship alive if you're not currently in a role through them.

I understand what you've said here but you'd expect a call to say thanks for the efforts I have no good news i'm afraid. Sorry I believe in treating others with respect.

You spend the time, the effort and lick their arses to get the paper forwarded to someone who understand your skills/experience at the client end. It's the least they can do. Have they no balls?

Are they unable to give people bad news or are they actually mostly vermin that should be eradicated at close range with a shotgun blast to the face?

I will in future drop the CV and run, but I am trying as a newbie to build up this list of "good agents" at the same time! So unavoidable really to encounter these planks.

I have a short list too, who I call now and again to see what they have, yes they always take the calls. I phone them once a fortnight to see what's going down and listen to their tulipe and woes of how bad it is to be busy and in employment.

Bring the petrol?

Aye sounds a good idea, perhaps I can come up with something a little more inventive, been a while since we've had some anthrax/sarin scares, perhaps some exploding white powder in the post to the vermin should do the trick

[Cata1yst]

This^

(Unless you can find a way to adjust to the many joys of contracting - agents being just one of them. )

Erm that was "contracting" mate in Switzerland They return calls and keep you updated..

[craig1]

I understand what you've said here but you'd expect a call to say thanks for the efforts I have no good news i'm afraid. Sorry I believe in treating others with respect.

You spend the time, the effort and lick their arses to get the paper forwarded to someone who understand your skills/experience at the client end. It's the least they can do. Have they no balls?

Are they unable to give people bad news or are they actually mostly vermin that should be eradicated at close range with a shotgun blast to the face?

I will in future drop the CV and run, but I am trying as a newbie to build up this list of "good agents" at the same time! So unavoidable really to encounter these planks.

I have a short list too, who I call now and again to see what they have, yes they always take the calls. I phone them once a fortnight to see what's going down and listen to their tulipe and woes of how bad it is to be busy and in employment.

Bring the petrol?

Aye sounds a good idea, perhaps I can come up with something a little more inventive, been a while since we've had some anthrax/sarin scares, perhaps some exploding white powder in the post to the vermin should do the trick

One other thing: My experience is that the more generalist the agent and their market, the more likely he/she is to be rude and show blatant lack of respect to you if your application fails or even if successful! The more "niche" the agent and their market, the more likely they are to value relationships, even if the first role they put you forward for is unsuccessful.

[RichardCranium]

I understand what you've said here but you'd expect a call to say thanks for the efforts I have no good news i'm afraid. Sorry I believe in treating others with respect.

That's because you're not an agent.

Agents do not make money chatting to us and keeping us informed; such activities are inefficiencies.

You spend the time, the effort and lick their arses to get the paper forwarded to someone who understand your skills/experience at the client end. It's the least they can do.

No, the least they can do is nothing. So they do nothing.

Have they no balls?

soul

No.

Are they unable to give people bad news

What's in it for them?

or are they actually mostly vermin

Not vermin, parasites.

that should be eradicated at close range with a shotgun blast to the face?

Too quick.

I will in future drop the CV and run

May as well. Fire and forget. They'll call you if they want you.

but I am trying as a newbie to build up this list of "good agents"

Here, use mine:

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...

HTH

So unavoidable really to encounter these planks.

Yep. Until you can think of a way of going direct.

I have a short list too, who I call now and again to see what they have, yes they always take the calls. I phone them once a fortnight to see what's going down and listen to their tulipe and woes of how bad it is to be busy and in employment.

So you cold call them, then are surprised they lean on your shoulder? Isn't that what you want them to do for you?

Bring the petrol?

Actually, I've just remembered what petrol costs. I'll bring some firelighters instead.

Aye sounds a good idea, perhaps I can come up with something a little more inventive, been a while since we've had some anthrax/sarin scares, perhaps some exploding white powder in the post to the vermin should do the trick

While out of the UK, you've clearly not been keeping up with the stories of the people that have been sent to prison for posting things like that online. We're not allowed to talk like that in the UK any more, I'm afraid.