How long can you stall the agent before accepting?

[Anastacia7]

Hi, I was offered my first contract last Friday but due to my current crazy work hours and trying to understand the contracting world, I finally gave my verbal acceptance of the contract yday. The agent is pushing for me to sign the contract (been 7 days since the offer was made) as the client needs someone on board quickly (this I know is true from my interview) but I'd really like to engage a solicitor to look at the terms to ensure I am outside IR35 before signing and possibly negotiating some of the terms within the contract.

As I am new to contracting, does stalling signing of the contract for a few more days acceptable in the contracting world? Any thoughts? This IR35 thing is really scary. Although SJD advised that I will fall outside of it, I think there are some clauses in my contract that fails the Contract test.

Also, out of curiosity has the HRMC investigated and bring many contractors to court for IR35?

[RichardCranium]

So many questions!

Hi, I was offered my first contract last Friday

Congratulations!

but due to my current crazy work hours and trying to understand the contracting world, I finally gave my verbal acceptance of the contract yday.

"yday"? Today? Yesterday?

So, you've accepted the contract is it is. A verbal contract is a valid contract.

The agent is pushing for me to sign the contract (been 7 days since the offer was made) as the client needs someone on board quickly (this I know is true from my interview)

Speed is the most common reason for needing a contractor.

but I'd really like to engage a solicitor to look at the terms to ensure I am outside IR35 before signing and possibly negotiating some of the terms within the contract.

Not a solicitor - it needs to be a IT contracts & IR35 specialist. But you've verbally accepted, so it is too late.

As I am new to contracting, does stalling signing of the contract for a few more days acceptable in the contracting world?

No. The agent will, at the client's insistence, place the no. 2 person. They probably start on Monday at 9 a.m.

Any thoughts?

Yes. I like curry and beer and I worry about global overpopulation. I think about sex a lot more than I am capable of doing it.

This IR35 thing is really scary.

You're telling us. Some of us lost a LOT of money when it came in. As in the cost of a house.

Although SJD advised that I will fall outside of it, I think there are some clauses in my contract that fails the Contract test.

So do you want expert help or just make a decision yourself?

Also, out of curiosity has the HRMC investigated and bring many contractors to court for IR35?

Not many, and HMRC tends to lose, I believe.

[thunderlizard]

In my experience it always takes a few days to get the contract checked out and amended as required. It's never been a problem for me, though agents sometimes act a little surprised that you want to read the contract before you sign it. Just keep everybody informed through the process.

[SueEllen]

The contract can be turned around in 24 hours.

However you should have got the contract to a solicitor yesterday (Wednesday) to get it agreed on Friday.

This is because often the agents insist that they must have certain clauses in the contact, which even though you and your solicitor have warned them won't stand up in a court of law they still want in.

BTW next time you accept a contract verbally or via email always state "subject to contract".

[CheeseSlice]

Get the contract reviewed anyway and negotiate anything you don't agree with. Any decent agent shouldn't be bothered with making IR35 friendly changes that often only affect your own rights as an individual or LTD

I don't fully agree with the verbal agreement bit being legal, I think that this may be a bit of a myth. You could always say you hadn't read the contract, and that wasn't what you agreed to. Plenty of business is done on the ground of agreeing something in principle, but not officially until the legal paperwork has been done.
In a slightly different situation I once tried to hold an agent to a verbal agreement which should have overridden something in my contract. After spending money on a good lawyer he said the verbal agreement wouldn't hold any water in court - paper always wins the day. Your situation is quite different, but the point is that verbal agreements aren't always set in stone or easy to prove.

edit: I dont provide legal advice. What I have written is just my personal point of view.

[Wanderer]

As I am new to contracting, does stalling signing of the contract for a few more days acceptable in the contracting world?

Ahh, you are new to this and now you're getting cold feet aren't you. . You've stalled long enough, you're playing with the big boys now so stop messing about, sign the contract and fax/email it to the agency straight away. You have an expert opinion that you are outside IR35 and a respected accountant on your side so get on with doing business and stop worrying (and stop looking for excuses not to take the contract).

Yeah, it's a bit scary at first but take a deep breath and jump right in, you will be fine.

[DS23]

...The agent will, at the client's insistence, place the no. 2 person. They probably start on Monday at 9 a.m....

as dh said stall much more and you will lose the contract. do it (sign it) and don't worry about ir35 yet - you haven't built up any funds worth losing.

[MarillionFan]

Ahh, you are new to this and now you're getting cold feet aren't you. . You've stalled long enough, you're playing with the big boys now so stop messing about, sign the contract and fax/email it to the agency straight away. You have an expert opinion that you are outside IR35 and a respected accountant on your side so get on with doing business and stop worrying (and stop looking for excuses not to take the contract).

Yeah, it's a bit scary at first but take a deep breath and jump right in, you will be fine.

WHS.

I have never met anyone who regretted going contracting. The opposite, Why didn't I do it quicker! is the normal reply.

GL

[SueEllen]

edit: I dont provide legal advice. What I have written is just my personal point of view.

I asked a lawyer friend a while ago about this. Verbal contracts are legal in England but if the intention of both parties is to use a written agreement then it's the written agreement is the one that is used.

That's why agents and other companies ring you up because then you can't dispute what they say. However you can send them correspondence stating what was said on the telephone call but you need to prove that it was highly likely they got the written correspondence. Which is one reason companies have a habit of losing emails, faxes and letters that aren't send to them by at least "recorded signed for".

[escapeUK]

WHS.

I have never met anyone who regretted going contracting. The opposite, Why didn't I do it quicker! is the normal reply.

GL

So very true. 10 years wasted in a permie role I hated, with people I despised.