Peed off with Agency

[Shimano105]

What happened to the hard-nosed contractors on here, everyone seems to accept the crap that is given to them and rolls over. No wonder rates are plummeting with such amazing business skills.

The amount of margin that is taken is everything, for that is where your money is lost and where the client's value for money is lost also.

This explains why so many in this country are financially inept.

Still, what do I care? I am relying on the parasites less and less, the rest of you are welcome to them.

[gingerjedi]

He agreed the deal not being able to know the margin because the parasite agents will never disclose it - I wonder why?

Now he knows the margin he is perfectly entitled to ask for more and should. He should also inform the client - let's see how happy everyone is with the arrangement with everything out in the open.

All this 'everyone is happy' line is always trotted out from those that know all the figures but keep them to themselves. Like I say, let everyone know the numbers involved and see if they are happy, otherwise you are nothing but an underhand, lying shyster.

But you knew that anyway.

Hear hear

Why do we have agents on a board dedicated to the welfare of contractors anyway? We don't give a feck about your profits, it's all about maximising our income by any means necessary.

I hear that clients on the continent are starting to favour agents with transparent margins as they know they're getting the calibre of contractor they're paying for, the days of get rich quick contracting in the UK are pretty much over but judging by the sheer number of agents still milking their rather fortunate position that hasn't filtered through over here yet. Only a mater of time.

[SuperZ]

Maybe I'm missing something but my take on it is:

Typically, a consultancy will retain people (permies) to work on various contracts and they have a pool of good people at their disposal, trained, experienced and strengths/weaknesses well known. If their people aren't working on a chargable contract with a client, the consultancy still pays them. The consultancy will have substitutes they can bring in to work for a client at short notice.

Agencies by contrast pretty much just forward on CVs, often having never met the contractor and with little or no understanding of the client or contractors business.

That's why a consultancy takes more money than an agency.

Exactly. Also, a consultancy often has more than just a few people on site and as you said is providing more of a service than just a "bug 'em CV's and see if they hire one" type service to end client. Hence, contractors working via consultancies will earn a smaller slice of the rate charged to the end client, the consultancy will also have more responsibility than an agency has. Agents/agencies need to get real on what they're really doing for their dough and if ripping contactors off, need to accept the consequences should the contractor find out and damage the agency relationship with client co.

[gingerjedi]

Exactly. Also, a consultancy often has more than just a few people on site and as you said is providing more of a service than just a "bug 'em CV's and see if they hire one" type service to end client. Hence, contractors working via consultancies will earn a smaller slice of the rate charged to the end client, the consultancy will also have more responsibility than an agency has. Agents/agencies need to get real on what they're really doing for their dough and if ripping contactors off, need to accept the consequences should the contractor find out and damage the agency relationship with client co.

Funny how we all know the difference but the agent doesn't... shysters the lot of 'em.

[thunderlizard]

I don't understand what bit of your situation is bad news, unless you want to dwell on the past. You've just found out that there is lots of slack in various peoples' margins, and you are the cheapest man on site. Much worse would be to find out that you are costing the client £200/d more than anybody else and the middlemen are only making tiny margins out of you. Then you'd know you'd be first for the chop, but as it is you know you've got plenty of wiggle room if you need it.

[The Agents View]

Funny how we all know the difference but the agent doesn't... shysters the lot of 'em.

You only see one side of it. 1/3 of my contractors WORK FOR CONSULTANCIES. They take the requirement, and ask me to fill it... they then take their cut, and I take mine. It's psychological - the whole "he's costing £1000 per day, so he must be good" thing - it's b99999ks - it's the same people, with a consultancy badge, and 100% markup applied.

Do you REALLY think that consultancies have hundreds of people sitting on the bench waiting for projects, being paid without doing anything? Or do you think that in a recession they reduce their risk by bringing people in on a call off basis?

Ultimately the consultancy does exactly the same thing as an agency 80% of the time - they take a role, ask a client to review some profiles, and place people - their agenda is often then to get additional people in by "recommending" throwing resource at a project. The additional 20% takes account of the skeleton permy staff that works as you suggested - they're often the ones who get put in as a preference, as the consultancy can charge them out at £1000 and make £800 off them.

Funny how the agent knows this but GingerJedi has such a tainted view of the industry that he can't see what's staring him in the face.

(my job on Monday is to pull together 20 profiles for a consultancy to submit to a client for a big bid - they don't have the skills in house - so the whole thing is a simple bodyshopping exercise. It's a big5 that I'll be working with....go figure)

[gingerjedi]

...some more agents bollocks...

So in your defence you're saying the consultancies are just as bad as you are when it comes to ripping off end clients and contractors alike... marvellous.

[The Agents View]

So in your defence you're saying the consultancies are just as bad as you are when it comes to ripping off end clients and contractors alike... marvellous.

Nope. I'm saying the consultancies charge FAR more, for the same service. Read it properly.

[dspsyssts]

Wish I had a contract paying £250 a day, I'd be a hoopin and a hollerin!

Maybe time to get real?...in this current market maybe just be grateful your earning.

[Wanderer]

Wish I had a contract paying £250 a day, I'd be a hoopin and a hollerin! Maybe time to get real?...in this current market maybe just be grateful your earning.

And what would you be thinking if you found out that it could have easily been £350 a day?

Oh dear, I detect a residual permie mindset here!

Really, it sounds more like the OP is getting into a businessman mindset to me. If your middle man is taking a massive cut, you try and negotiate it down so you and the client can both get a better deal. Nothing wrong with that.