Current market situation (3rd level support)

[AngelOfTheNorth]

The market is somewhere between dead and very dead. The problem with any large package is that the consultancies and hence the outsourcing/offshoring/onshoring lot are onto it in a big way. The barriers to entry are not relevant anymore except for very new niches and the Indian arms of the consultanices will be ahead of the pack anyway and quickly eliminate any boomed money.

Not a sniff of any work in what would normally be a good time to be hunting as new budgets are released. I've got the doomed feeling today.

Your answer makes me sad ......

[rootsnall]

Your answer makes me sad ......

It makes me sad ! I always said I was looking forward to the day when it wasn't worth my while doing this tulip anymore as it would force me to do something else. I'm not so sure now after 15 years of easy ( and good most of the time ) money. I think things will bounce back to some extent if we emerge from this recession but the outsourcing/Indian factor means it'll never be as lucrative again.

[lukemg]

If SAP dies as well, then abandon ship, all hope is lost ! It has been the case for some time now that certain areas of IT have run the full life-cycle and died off e.g. support, Lotus Notes, numerous dev software packages etc. Alongside that, people have had a few years in the sun when they were all the rage, especially contractors who tend to specialise. When the wind shifts you can easily find all your skills are worth nothing ! This isn't a profession, it's like being in a horse race and trying to change mounts half way through the race because yours is dying ! If you are in the sun, you need to get the next 5 years planned (it's not just a dodgy interview question), if your hoss is already toast, start praying, then start planning !

[the_duderama]

When you say 3rd line support - what kind of support is it? Is it Networking (ie routers/firewalls/VOIP), infrastructure (windows/sql/exchange), desktop, applications?

Personally I'm doing the networking side of things, and it doesn't seem totally dead to me, i'm in contract and have a couple of permanent interviews lined up (no contracts in the North East, but there never seemed to be many).

I've checked the stats on IT jobs watch just to make sure it's not just what i do going down the toilet, and it seems that most roles advertised are down by 2/3 on what they were in 2008, except banking stuff.

[wizzfizz09]

When you say 3rd line support - what kind of support is it? Is it Networking (ie routers/firewalls/VOIP), infrastructure (windows/sql/exchange), desktop, applications?

Personally I'm doing the networking side of things, and it doesn't seem totally dead to me, i'm in contract and have a couple of permanent interviews lined up (no contracts in the North East, but there never seemed to be many).

I've checked the stats on IT jobs watch just to make sure it's not just what i do going down the toilet, and it seems that most roles advertised are down by 2/3 on what they were in 2008, except banking stuff.

Correct....

As long as there are end users, there will always be a need for infrastructure support. At the end of the day, infrastructure allows an employee to perform their job.

Whether it's kept in-house or outsourced is another story.

[rootsnall]

If SAP dies as well, then abandon ship, all hope is lost ! It has been the case for some time now that certain areas of IT have run the full life-cycle and died off e.g. support, Lotus Notes, numerous dev software packages etc. Alongside that, people have had a few years in the sun when they were all the rage, especially contractors who tend to specialise. When the wind shifts you can easily find all your skills are worth nothing ! This isn't a profession, it's like being in a horse race and trying to change mounts half way through the race because yours is dying ! If you are in the sun, you need to get the next 5 years planned (it's not just a dodgy interview question), if your hoss is already toast, start praying, then start planning !

SAP itself is still going strong(ish), it's the recession now, and offshoring and ICTs now and longer term that are making things grim at a contractor level. A smaller more obscure skill may actually be better for long term survival as there isn't the same incentive for offshore resources to get skilled up. I've changed mounts a few times but I don't see an obvious techie skill to learn at the moment and have doubts about any of the broader skills paying big bucks longer term. Moving higher up the food chain is probably the answer but we can't all do that, and the higher end stuff is headed offshore sooner rather than later.

[gingerjedi]

Correct....

As long as there are end users, there will always be a need for infrastructure support. At the end of the day, infrastructure allows an employee to perform their job.

Whether it's kept in-house or outsourced is another story.

That is very true and there are still jobs out there it's just that the technical stuff is centralised and what used to be a genuine support role is nothing more than a PC portering and a bit of patching these days.

ITIL has destroyed the fun of fixing things.

[Worzel]

Competition is high here too (in OZ) so it's nothing I'm not used to.. 1 role I was interviewed for recently had 263 applicants...the recruiter told me that only 4 were shortlisted (including myself)

But you also mention rates.. From my research, Infrastructure still sits in between 250-350quid per day. That seems reasonable to me....

263 applicants! I remember watching the news a few weeks back concerning the job market and they reported someone in a non-IT industry complaining that as many as 20 other people are chasing the same job! I wish we had those odds!

Yes there are still some infrastructure roles being "advertised" for £350+ a day but they are almost always for a financial in London who will expect your previous contract to be identical to the one on offer and on top of that the competition will be first class. I've worked with some very talented people and those are the sort of guys I'm competing against right now. I'm good at what I do but if I'm honest they're in a different league! Go down a rung to the £250 per day contracts and it's just a lottery wether you even get a call. At this level the competition is vast and agents will typically squeeze the rate further because they know they have such a large pool of candidates available. In many ways the £250 p/d level is harder than the £350+ level.

[lukemg]

Yes, there will still be some roles about but it is in the death-throes because:
It's either out-sourced or about to be (and they won't pay a premium for staff). Infrastructure will continue to become more resilient, easier to change, maintain and support and a lot cheaper (which means putting resilience in is much more cost-effective too). In short, you need fewer, cheaper staff to support it. Everyone needs to be looking 3-5 years into the future and adapting for that because it is too late when you are obsolete !

[gingerjedi]

It's American but interesting none the less:

http://www.cioupdate.com/features/ar...fing-in-Q2.htm

At a glance support looks very healthy but you've got to remember the candidate pool is huge compared to other areas.

Lets just hope we don't lag too far behind our American cousins.