Preferred (compulsory) supplier umbrella & agencies?

[malvolio]

Steady on, now - your prejudices are showing...As for mine, I remain to be convinced that opting into or out of the agency regs are actually relevant in any way to people who aren't agency temps, however they style themselves.

Opt in or out has nothing to do with it, by the way. Would you buy a BMW if BMW insisted you only buy it from their dealership in Aberdeen and on their financial terms?

[freshblue]

Some of the pressure I am told is coming from end clients being scared over employment rights claims and residual tax issues. The rule of thumb seems to be Ltd company is ok, PAYE brolly is ok, everything else (Composite, EBT etc) is dodgy. We got a memo from the client to all contractors asking us to confirm tax arrangements and how we operated! Personally, I blame Europe and the stoopid Franco-german economic protectionist model.

[malvolio]

Wrong. You should blame the big agencies who have sold the end client a whole pile of FUD about employment risks and the like, neatly sidestepping the real answer which is to use proper B2B contracts. But since that would weaken their hold on the market place and prevent them using us as commodities rather than businesses, (and actually proves they've been telling lies for the last five years) they won't actually point that out to anyone.

It's all going haywire anyway. There's a case coming through now (Muscat) that blows large holes in all the "agencies protect you from employment claims" guff .

[Denny]

Mind your own business

I'm outraged by the general concerns raised here, but not at all surprised.

Make it clear to all employment businesses that they are operating on behalf of their own clients, not our own umbrellas. Otherwise they would be agents, not employment businesses. No umbrella has any business at all offering agencies incentives to push business their way - their clients are us, the contractors, not the agencies.

Also make it clear that if they do insist on contractors using a preferred supplied umbrella that you will only do so on the basis that you are opted in not out of the agency regulations. Tell them that by telling you how to run your own business, you are engaging with them as a pseudo employee not an owner managed businesses or freelance set up. Tell them that their attempts to control over our business makes us inside IR35 automatically whether we accept their terms or not.

If all that fails tell them that you expect them to operate within certain boundaries that you set down by them and that it doesn't all operate their way. If they want to tell you how to run your operation tell them you too have your own terms and conditions they must abide by.

This whole freelance marlarky through agencies is getting too much. Effectively we're only self-employed when it suits the agency and client and then only when it involves all the disadvantages of running an own businesses - the risks etc,- but we are also employees when it suits them to provided we have no rights to protect us.

Talk about getting the worst of both worlds. Being self employed is no longer worth bothering about now that we're merely 'casual employees with no rights'.

Action is needed and fast. The sooner the better so we can regain our proper negotiating status and freedom to run our businesses as we choose.

[Rebecca Loos]

I think somebody here earlier posted what I think is the right procedure when faced with such agents.

Do not protest or commit either way when speaking with the agent initially. Be vague and get the interview. By then, you'll probably be the agent's only candidate for the job.
If you get it (I mean you got interview and the client has told the agent they're happy with you and the agent wants to make you an offer), then the fun starts. Be strong and refuse to do any business with the agent's preferred supplier(s). The agent will be furious yes, but make it clear that it is your way or the highway (if they don't want to do it your way, then you just refuse the job). The agent will be faced with losing the contract (if you're his/her only candidate) and torn between their instructions and losing his/hers bonus, (s)he may well come round to your way of thinking.

[Lucifer Box]

I would amend Becs generally sound advice slightly. Rather than refusing the job, phone your client contact and tell them you are really looking forward to starting work with them, but that the agency is being obstructive. Nine times out of the ten the client will tell the agency to stop arsing round and give you what you want (as long as it's not unreasonable of course).

[Rebecca Loos]

that's right Lucifer (so it was you then!), that was the advice that was given then. It would work better.

[Xerxes]

I think Captain Jack has to take the credit for being the first to suggest getting the client to put pressure on the agent.

Time for a round of mutual back patting I think!

[Lucifer Box]

I think Captain Jack has to take the credit for being the first to suggest getting the client to put pressure on the agent.

Time for a round of mutual back patting I think!

Well done, Xerxes. Credit where credit's due and all that!

[John Galt]

I'm outraged by the general concerns raised here, but not at all surprised.

Make it clear to all employment businesses that they are operating on behalf of their own clients, not our own umbrellas. Otherwise they would be agents, not employment businesses. No umbrella has any business at all offering agencies incentives to push business their way - their clients are us, the contractors, not the agencies.

Also make it clear that if they do insist on contractors using a preferred supplied umbrella that you will only do so on the basis that you are opted in not out of the agency regulations. Tell them that by telling you how to run your own business, you are engaging with them as a pseudo employee not an owner managed businesses or freelance set up. Tell them that their attempts to control over our business makes us inside IR35 automatically whether we accept their terms or not.

If all that fails tell them that you expect them to operate within certain boundaries that you set down by them and that it doesn't all operate their way. If they want to tell you how to run your operation tell them you too have your own terms and conditions they must abide by.

This whole freelance marlarky through agencies is getting too much. Effectively we're only self-employed when it suits the agency and client and then only when it involves all the disadvantages of running an own businesses - the risks etc,- but we are also employees when it suits them to provided we have no rights to protect us.

Talk about getting the worst of both worlds. Being self employed is no longer worth bothering about now that we're merely 'casual employees with no rights'.

Action is needed and fast. The sooner the better so we can regain our proper negotiating status and freedom to run our businesses as we choose.