Agency margins

[MarillionFan]

Re: haha...

"Agents take advantage of the ignorance of both contractors and clients."

Only to people like you Oaksoft. I always know what cut the agency is on. Allways. I discuss it with them and then tend to find out at the client.

Why? Because I talk to people.

This is a supply chain and i am not happy for part of it to be more than 20%. You obviously cannot find it out. I can.

Rule of thumb if more than 20% sh1t agency IMO.

[vxsamurai]

I have been ripped off at a margin of %40+, learnt my lesson. Was told the rate was only 21% as I wanted the position (my first contract) so accepted the lies and the low rate. Diddums, well I managed to go direct when renewal came round as I found out I'd been ripped off. Best lesson I ever learnt in the game.

My current margin is 5% (and previous) because I found the position not the agency, the agency does nothing but leech money off me and does not provide me with any services. Do they ever? I would go direct when ever possible. Agents and agencies are just middle men which are sometimes but not always necessary.

Can't wait for the new legislation to be in full effect to see if it makes any difference.

In answer to the original question posted for going margins, I would say get one as low as you can.

[malvolio]

the agency does nothing but leech money off me and does not provide me with any services.

Now you've not been paying attention, have you?

The agency is paying you then charging the client to recover the cost - that's all they have to do in your (admittedly enviable) situation.

So to put that in perspective, you get paid regardless, they don't. They have to give money to you before it's given to them, and they have to pay factoring charges on it (it's not kept in a shoe box under the bed you know) before they get it back from the client.

Do you not think they are permitted to charge a fee for that service?

[mailman]

.

Obviously you are not an english speaking person Malvo or you wouldnt have seen Sumo's reference to "HIM FINDING THE POSITION"...as in...he did all the work to get the job :rolleyes

Mailman

[malvolio]

Re: .

No, the understanding of the English quite sufficient is, and comprehension of statements made completely also was.

However, Sumo did say that there was an agency in the loop and the only reason for that would be to act as a bridge between his client and HisCo and the only reason for that - at least the only one I can think of - is that they are handling the billing/payment work. For which they are surely entitled a fee? Or am I going in completely the wrong direction (always likely, I suppose!). I think we shoud be told!

Anyway, my point is that much as we would like to live without agents, they are a necessity of life and they do actually add some value to our side, even if we all like to think of them as totally parasitic. Stupidly high margins are probably as much our fault as theirs, but we do need to keep a sense of perspective.

Hands that feed biting a bad idea surely is...


(BTW - it's Malvolio, as in cross'd yellow garters, not Malvo as in clinically insane teenage mass-murdering sniper from Chesapeake. English is such a precise language, don't you think?)

[oaksoft]

MarillionFan

Well done MF. So you can find out the margin eh?

If I were feeling nasty I'd say that if you were half as smart as you think you are you'd not need a scumbag agency to find your jobs for you :rollin

...but I'm not feeling nasty. I feel great today.

Is it worse being a scumbag agent or a whinging contractor who relies on the scumbag agent 100% for work and prompt payment?

If you're going to use an agent then get on with your life and stop complaining about them. No-one is forcing your hand.
Ever feel you are repeating yourself?

[mailman]

.

Hey...if your happy for scum to take more of your money...then so be it :rollin Really...they dont need apologists like you to defend them :rollin

Mailman

[MarillionFan]

Re: .

"...but I'm not feeling nasty. I feel great today." He he he. Oaksoft.

Yeh - Banging me head on the wall again m'old son.

7 Years contracting. 5 Direct, 2 years worth through agencies.
One shop, five staff.
Placed three contractors into roles in the last three years. Taken a percentage once and a kick back twice.
Passed 6 positions on to agents and taken a kick back on two.
Been passed two positions directly by agents. Bought one a meal.

Yeh. I know the margin and yeh they're all scumbags. Just like me.

[Liddle Feesh]

Negotiating Rates

How do you go about negotiating rates?

I've got an interview for a short 3-4 week .NET contract, seems pretty standard and close by. Agent asked me what my rate would be. I said £xx p/h min, but looking for £xx + 5 p/h for .NET.

Agent says, "Client only looking to pay £xx-5 to £xx" (based on the knowledge that he has just gleaned from my minimum rate".

Even though I'm using a phone, I do detect a faint whiff of aromatic butt-smell coming through the phone, but I had already agreed my minimum rate for this job.

I'm happy to work on my minimum rate - but does ANYONE know how best to negotiate these things? I can't take the maximum rate for this type of contract and move down, since .NET contracts often hit £xx + 20 on my searches.

Any hints and tips for the next one?

[oaksoft]

A Tip for LiddleFeesh

My advice is that same I'd give to any business.

Start at a high price and let them barter you down.

No company starts low and tries to negotiate their way up.

The fact that they are talking to you means that they want you. Knowing that is really good news.

Now all you need to do is go out and find out what the rate dfor .Net is and then add £5.

NEVER QUOTE A MINIMUM RATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Dear Mr Agent, here are my skills and experience. My rate is £x" (knowing X is WAY too high). They'll come back with either:-

a)Get lost you're havin' a larf:rollin
b)Damn you're outside our range
c)Client will only pay £y
d)OK that rate suits.

a) or b) leads you nicely onto "OK what will you pay?" to which you can reply a) or b) or d) as appropriate or "Nope sorry, you'll need to do MUCH better than that" (without giving a revised rate).

c)Leads you onto ....god I could go on all day but you get the drift.