Agency margins

[thunderlizard]

Business is business

Don't get sidetracked by moral arguments. It doesn't matter whether/how much of the agent's margin is morally yours, and whether you have some kind of right to it. If it's money it's worth going after. If you think you can get some of it then go ahead and try, but don't sob if you fail.

[malvolio]

Devil's advocate mode on...

Look at it from the agency's viewpoint for once....

They have invested a lot of time and effort cold calling potential clients, marketing their business, building a presence, tracking down leads, tracking down qualified contractors and setting up the logisitics of the deal. They then get to wait for their money while still paying yours in timescales that are commercial nonsense.

From where they stand, they've done the hard part and you're only there to deliver the promised goods. The investment and risk in the deal is theirs, therefore they see the revenue as theirs. You are getting a realistic (in their view!) cut of that money.

DA Mode off//

I still think that 90% of them are total crap, but we're not talking reality,we're talking business. We are not in a position to argue about whose money it is, until we start doing all that boring marketing and risk-taking ourselves. Until then, were merely the labourers doing the routine work.

[oaksoft]

Response to Tim

I firmly believe that if the client is paying an enhanced rate for enhanced expectations then that extra belongs to *me*.

You can firmly believe what you like but you are in for a lot of pain, hardship and lack of understanding from all other parties in the chain.

History teaches us that the guy who breaks his back doing the actual work is always the worst paid.

malvolio's comment is also worth taking on board.

Some contractors have a very cosy view of what constitutes real risk in a business sense. The "reward" is not for hard work : it is for risk and contractors typically take none.
Don't just take my word for it; ask any judge

The agencies see themselves as hiding the horrible and risky bits of the real world from both clients and contractors and believe they are justified in taking as much as they can get.
Great business if you can get your hands on it.

The lesson is : if you want more money you need to take on much more risk.

[mailman]

I guess...

the difference is Im working in more of a management position than an engineers role...where by the sounds of things engineers are treated as nothing more than slaves (hence your lower expectations).

Hey...dont hate me because Im worth more :rollin

Mailman

[malvolio]

Re: I guess...

No - I'm a manager/consultant too. You may be out-earning me, but that would be tricky. My work - which is basically improving departmental performance - usually saves more than it costs, except that most departments have never really costed themselves accurately in the first place so they never really notice.

And just to put risk in perspective, an ex-colleague took a flier once on a year long programme for no wedge in exchange for 10% of the savings realised at the end of the second year. The client (an investment bank) saved £26m. My ex-colleague no longer works.

[mailman]

good on him...

"And just to put risk in perspective, an ex-colleague took a flier once on a year long programme for no wedge in exchange for 10% of the savings realised at the end of the second year. The client (an investment bank) saved £26m. My ex-colleague no longer works."

He da man!

Mailman

[Not So Wise]

It's the agency's money. The higher the % the better they have done their job and/or market research, the worse someone else (either the client or the contractor) has done theirs.

The contractor should know what the max the market is willing to pay for his skills, the client should know the min he can get away paying for what he expects.

If an agency tells you X is max client is willing to pay is up to the contractor to decide if it is true or if to call the agencys bluff, same for the agency/client nogociations but in reverse.

An agency is neither parties friend or enemy, they like the other two want max profits. He who knows his market best and haggles best comes out with max returns.

Not their job to get best deal for the client or the contractor, it's to get best deal for themselves.

[MarillionFan]

15% seems to be industry average.
I start to get annoyed at more than 17.5%
just about except 20%
Never work with anyone who takes more as its a sure sign they're chancers.

[oaksoft]

Denial

"just about except 20%"

I'm sorry but what utter tosh.
There is absolutely nothing you can do about any agent taking this sum even on the unlikely chance that you find out what his cut is other than coming on here and complaining.

If you were in a position of sufficient strength to do anything constructuve about this might I suggest that you would not be in that position in the first place.

Agents take advantage of the ignorance of both contractors and clients.
Until both sides start taking responsibility for their own parts, that will never change.

Slagging them off and "tough talking" on a barely used bulletin board is hardly going to solve the problem is it?

[mailman]

haha...

of course there is something you can do if they are taking tuliploads of your money...refuse to sign the contract and watch them squirm :rollin

If you think its there money...then they deserve everything they can ninja off you...if you think its your money...then you are going to get more of your rate.

Its quite simple really.

Mailman