Opt Out Notification

[Martin Underwood]

dumping the agent

"...ask whether they are happy for you to go direct with them (they should, it saves them some money), so you can bump up your rate in the process"

Ah, if only life were so simple.

Tell you what: try it, and see what happens.

In most cases, you'll find that even though YOU may be allowed to go direct with the client, your client will not be allowed to take you on direct, because their contract with the agency will have an extended tie-in also. And, (here's the crux) the contract between the agency and the client is not bound by this opted-in legislation!

Just imagine if what you were suggesting were actually possible: all he agencies in the land would go bust within 6 months (not a bad thing, perhaps, but totally unrealistic to assume your idea will work).

[mailmannz]

Re: dumping the agent

The worst they can say is no. So there is no harm in asking.

However...there is also no harm in asking your manager if the contract will be extended too. Best to arm yourself fully when dealing with the blood suckers we know as agents.

Mailman

[rebeccaloos]

Re: dumping the agent

fair enough Martin. I have never tried it myself.
I am not sure I can see the point of having a legislation "protecting" contractors, if the contracts between clients and agencies make it un-enforceable!?

[WouldBeEntrepreneur]

Re: dumping the agent

"...ask whether they are happy for you to go direct with them (they should, it saves them some money), so you can bump up your rate in the process"

Hmm, many clients use agencies to make dealing with contractors easier. e.g. If a large company uses 200 contractors with direct contracts then they have 200 business relationships and invoices etc. to dela with. If the same company uses 200 contractors via a single agency then they have one business relationship and much simpler invoicing arrangements.

The client staff you deal with on a day to day basis often do not have any influence over this at all.

[mailmannz]

Re: dumping the agent

Just bloody ask for fecks sake! The worst they can do is say no.

You never know...they might be happy with you working directly for them (ie. no more blood sucking agents).

Mailman

[oaksoft]

What will happen if you do not opt out

OK. Away from the histrionics and passion of MailManz, let me spell out precisely what is happening to most of those who do not opt out:-

1)Agencies are now allowed by the DTI to issue new contracts as a direct result of the new regs even though this is technically against the spirit of the regs. The DTI are being "reasonable" to agencies in this sense and agencies are not slow to exploit it.

2)If you opt out, you'll be given similar contracts to the old one.

3)If you do NOT opt out, you almost certainly will be given a really bad IR35-caught contract. They don't HAVE to do this but this is the agencies way of forcing you to "help them out" but opting out. None of this is illegal. The agencies will justify this because the regs expect them to provide certain assurances about "individuals" and not their companies. This might well have an impact on your companies ability to substitute for example. The agencies will take no chances and will force personal service into your contracts.

4)Agencies will always favour those who have opted out. In a bear market this might be the difference between working and not working.

5)Those not opting out will be subjected to requests for criminal record histories, photographic personal ID and all sorts of references and other unpleasant, time consuming stuff.

6)Those opting in will almost certainly face lower rates to compensate for the increase in admin on the agencies part.

BUT if, in light of all of the above, you still feel that Mailmanz is correct and that this is a good way to shaft your agencies then go ahead but I'll warn you now - these fora and the PCG fora are full of people who have tried to remain opted in and are now crying in their milk over the agencies behaviour.

For a stress-free life, make your agent's life as stress-free as possible.
You will NOT get something for nothing with these regs. Agencies really are sharks compared to the vast majority of contractors. Live with it and sleep at night.

By the way, please note that I have offered no opinion on the rightness or wrongness of the agencies behaviour. I merely state the facts as I predicted on these boards and others months and months ago and as have transpired since.

[mailmannz]

Re: What will happen if you do not opt out

Funny thing is...with contract renewal just past the agency asked me to opt out. When I said I wouldnt they sent me an email stating all the extra information they needed (copy of passport, references, qualifications etc).

I told them I have already provided that info to them.

End of story.

Oaksoft is being a bit dramatic, nearly as dramatic as me but dont for a second ever think the agencies are wanting you to opt out to benefit you! Thats just not the case.

Also...being opted out or in or shake it all about does not matter with regards to IR35. If the taxman is going to come for you he is going to come for you regardless of your opted status.

Opt out, be a fool...thanks PCG.

Mailman

[widgetdance]

Re: What will happen if you do not opt out

Is Oaksoft not operating as an agent? If that is the way he behaves as an agent he is not going to get a lot of contractors!

1. You can not opt out after you have been introduced to the client!
If you have already got the contract then you are defacto opted in. This remains the case for the length of the contract and any extensions unless there is a aterial change to the circumstances.

2. Before you can be introduced to the client the agent has to show you and get your agreement on the TandCs so you can decide whether to opt out or not. This negates all Oaksofts worries as you will have been given a copy of the terms and conditions expected before deciding to be put forward. If they change the TandCs after you have accepted then they are breaking the law.

The new regs give a great deal of protection for you, not the least of which is protection from non payment by the client.
If your agent wants you to opt out then use the leverage to get a cast iron non IR35 contract to your satisfaction.

[rebeccaloos]

Re: What will happen if you do not opt out

I think Oaksoft doesn't want to work with contractors (as he said in a previous email) - so I am sure he is not bothered by how his comments will be perceived on this board.

However, I can understand his viewpoint (and I'm not an agent!). The problem with "opted in" contractors is that it would be very very easy for us to deal direct with the client on renewal. Now I am of the opinion that agents should accept to take a cut for renewals and pass the extra money on to contractors if the contractor asks (if they don't, well, tough for the contractor). But going direct? A bit harsh. After all, the agent has fulfilled a very useful role in finding us the original contract in the first place, and don't forget that we rely on them for prompt payment, even if the client does not pay them or pay them late.

[widgetdance]

Re: What will happen if you do not opt out

I agree Becs, and I am not against opting out. What I am against is agents and clients using these new regs to bully me, or anyone else, into submission.
We should be able to use these regs to our advantage by negotiating opted out contracts on a B2B basis instead of arguing the toss with the agent.