How did it come to this...

[Underscore]

Re: Reality bites!

Well i've opted out - and its made no difference to the way i work with my client. They would never deal direct anyway - only small companies would consider dealing direct - the big boys who pay the big bucks will only deal with the agencies.

You sound like a right old wingebag mailman, I wouldn't hire you in a month of sundays.

[WouldBeEntrepreneur]

Re: Reality bites!

"They can not change the contract terms and conditions based on your "opted" status."

Errm, there are certain clauses usually found in an opted-out contract that are disallowed in an opted-in one. Can't remember the detail off the top of my head.

This agency wants reporting to the DTI - if you are a PCG member then raise it with them as I am sure they would be VERY interested, they also have links with REC and ATSCO.

[planetit]

Re: Reality bites!

If this agency normally places “opted-out” contractors with this client, then their contract might contain these clauses. So if you want to “opt in” they will have renegotiate contracts with the client. Reporting them to the DTI will get you nowhere.

Just say you will opt out if they give you a good contract from an IR35 point of view. If you insist on opting out, it looks like you are going to loose this contract. A simple choice.

[mailmannz]

Re: Reality bites!

Whether you are opted out or in makes no difference to Mr IR...if they come for you they are going to come for you regardless of your opted status.

Mailman

[oaksoft]

STVH001

The advice from Mordac was spot on and is based on commonsense.
Opting in make life harder for the agency because they need to do more including changing your contract.

You can be absolutely sure that if you make life hard for the agency he will make life hard for you.

Mailman and his mates may be morally right but in the real world things are not so simple.

There are NO advantages whatsoever to opting in.
The biggest one is supposed to be the handcuff clause but the vast majority of big clients INSIST on retaining an agency anyway.

Mailman makes opting in sound easy and blissful but how many stories have ytou heard about opted in contractors suffering from the following:-
1)Prolonged contract discussions.
2)Poor IR35 caught contracts. Contracts for opted in contractors must specify the contractor - i.e. personal service and by default an opted in contractor (according to the regs) is under the control of the client. So that puts paid to your RoS and D+C clauses
3)Lower rates.
4)All sorts of requirements about providing photos and criminal records.
5)Delayed contractual stuff to the point where the client says "Look have you anyone who can start tomorrow?" Agency says "Ah yes, this other guy has opted out. Have him instead?"

The PCG fora are full of these stories.

[tim123]

Re: STVH001

"The biggest one is supposed to be the handcuff clause but the vast majority of big clients INSIST on retaining an agency anyway."

But sometimes it is still an advantage. One of the consultants where I work is being terminated because the client have discovered that the agency have been doing illegal things. The client still want the consultant to stay but the agent are insisting that he cannot becuse of the handcuff.
They seem to want to stuff this guy just because they can.

tim

[mailmannz]

Re: STVH001

There are some very real benefits to being opted in...like the right to go direct and the right to be paid regardless of whether the agents been paid or not.

One would think those two benefits alone are pretty important ones :rollin

Mailman

[expat]

opt opt opt???

AIUI if you are contracted through an umbrella company (as the OP is) then you cannot opt out. Simple as that. Therefore you cannot opt in either: you are in. Simple as that.

As for the agency being aware of your situation but being unable to agree a contract with the client in time, that's nothing to do with the regulations, and everything to do with whether you'd buy a used car from these prats.