Difficult getting rates to match industry experience

[Pickle2]

You seem to assume that being able to do things quicker but a higher cost is something a project wants? Why? What benefit is there to that?

If I have 6 months work, and 6 months to do it in, what does your offer of do it in 3 months for twice the money give me?

It gets me a lot more risk. Im paying you double, so it costs me twice as much to find out you are actually tulipe after a month on the job.

It leaves me stranded when 5 months into the project the requirements change and you are no longer onsite, as you left 2 months ago.

If you want to up your rate but stay purely technical, you may need to move away from generic LAMP code monkeyness into something a bit more niche, or bring in some specfic expert vertical business knowledge. There really isnt much to diffferentiate an super excellent LAMP dev from a mereley good one.

[oracleslave]

You seem to assume that being able to do things quicker but a higher cost is something a project wants? Why? What benefit is there to that?

If you are working on a system that involves a customers ability to take new sales orders over the web as a very simple example then the speed at which you can deliver this functionality could be crucial and the increased rate to deliver quickly could pay for itself in hours/minutes.

[swamp]

Without wishing to sound arrogant, I've been in the LAMP web development game for nearly 10 years working on some pretty high-profile stuff.

Herein lies your problem!

Sorry, but a decent developer does not do LAMP for ten years. Your should have moved over to Java or C# a long time ago.

[Pickle2]

If you are working on a system that involves a customers ability to take new sales orders over the web as a very simple example then the speed at which you can deliver this functionality could be crucial and the increased rate to deliver quickly could pay for itself in hours/minutes.

OK, but thats still 10 bit support stuff. Still, you have a point - I just dont think there is much of a market for it.

High rates are usually paid on the bigger projects for the bigger companies. These usually have timelines in the months / years.

[jmo21]

The Dev manager will likely be the person most directly responsible for whatever the stated contract length is.

Now imagine you are that dev manager listening to an agent, or you yourself going direct, and hearing "I'll do it in half the time for twice the rate".

even if you are as tulip hot as you say you are, I reckon it doesn't come off as anything other than arrogance.

Pickle's list of reason's pretty much sums up all the additional reasons (after arrogance) as to why they won't believe you, nor risk it.

[chicane]

If I have 6 months work, and 6 months to do it in, what does your offer of do it in 3 months for twice the money give me?

Now imagine you are that dev manager listening to an agent, or you yourself going direct, and hearing "I'll do it in half the time for twice the rate".

even if you are as tulip hot as you say you are, I reckon it doesn't come off as anything other than arrogance.

I'm thinking that there's been a degree of misinterpretation of my original post. I intended "twice the speed" to be a (somewhat extreme) example rather than a statement of personal ability - apologies for any confusion.

Strangely enough, if the whole issue is taken outside the realm of hourly rates and into more standard B2B fixed price territory, the business case for the client becomes a lot clearer. If I say I can produce a deliverable for 30% less outlay than my nearest competitor, at a higher quality, and have a track record and testimonials to back this up, doesn't that constitute a pretty clear cut business case for the client?

Yet clients seem to lose all sight of such logic once hour/day rates are introduced into the equation. I acknowledge that the client is taking a risk by paying hourly/daily rather than by deliverable - but that's their choice and not mine.

[jmo21]

well you didn't say that, you said same price, half the time, not 30% cheaper!

any offshore can say that and win business from a client who only cares about cost.

[Turion]

You need to become a CONsultant rather than a contractor. A crap (or good, if you look at it in billing mode) consultant can actually earn more by 'expanding the project window', for the client benefit of course, by realising all unknown entities and detached dependancies. [which means trying to understand/learn/bulltulip] enough to survive the next month and keep things going. Your average SAP Con will know all about this

[Stan.goodvibes]

From my experience the agency will try and put over a range of 'skill level' CVs to the clientco - a lower rate noob, a mid-rate joe blow, and a top rate guru.

You would think that the clientco would read the CVs and decide which skill level most suits the project/budget, but of course they (surprise!) mostly go for the cheaper option.

Being #1WGC (#1 Worlds Greatest Contractor) I have in the past been bought in to replace the noob or even jow blow that the client co thought could do the job but wasn't up to it. THAT's when you can spring the top rate at them.

At any time before that you are at the mercy of the clientco going for the cheapest option...

[expat]

I don't think that the idea of working twice as fast is off the wall: in programming, it's a serious understatement of the differences in results according to skill.

But Stan is right: when the client's need becomes acute, their receptivity to billing increases. That's why Red Adair doesn't have any problems getting a decent rate.