Reply to: Difficult getting rates to match industry experience

[chicane]

I am in a similar situation. It takes me about a hour to do my work and that is about eight times faster than the permies. The rest of my times is taken up by updating my skills and doing my own work via a VPN.

Just out of interest, do you deliberately limit the amount of work you do for your ClientCo to one hour a day, or is there nothing left to do until the next day once you've completed the hour of work?

Most of my work for current ClientCo consists of small projects for which around 2 months development time has been set aside, to align with the expected working speed of the "average" developer. I normally spend the first couple of weeks getting half the project finished, followed by 6-8 weeks of working considerably more slowly just to align with their expectations of the speed I should be working.

This sounds somewhat morally questionable - but I don't want the client to get the impression that I'm willing to work at twice the speed of everybody else for the same money.

And to be honest, current ClientCo would likely assume that the initially allocated timescales were overegged rather than attributing the early delivery to a highly capable developer.

[Paddy]

I am in a similar situation. It takes me about a hour to do my work and that is about eight times faster than the permies. The rest of my times is taken up by updating my skills and doing my own work via a VPN. The trick is making the one hours work look longer and more complicated than it is.

[chris79]

twice the speed of an average candidate - get two gigs and do both at the same time - preferably from home

[Ruprect]

I love LAMP

[expat]

I don't think that the idea of working twice as fast is off the wall: in programming, it's a serious understatement of the differences in results according to skill.

But Stan is right: when the client's need becomes acute, their receptivity to billing increases. That's why Red Adair doesn't have any problems getting a decent rate.

[Stan.goodvibes]

From my experience the agency will try and put over a range of 'skill level' CVs to the clientco - a lower rate noob, a mid-rate joe blow, and a top rate guru.

You would think that the clientco would read the CVs and decide which skill level most suits the project/budget, but of course they (surprise!) mostly go for the cheaper option.

Being #1WGC (#1 Worlds Greatest Contractor) I have in the past been bought in to replace the noob or even jow blow that the client co thought could do the job but wasn't up to it. THAT's when you can spring the top rate at them.

At any time before that you are at the mercy of the clientco going for the cheapest option...

[Turion]

You need to become a CONsultant rather than a contractor. A crap (or good, if you look at it in billing mode) consultant can actually earn more by 'expanding the project window', for the client benefit of course, by realising all unknown entities and detached dependancies. [which means trying to understand/learn/bulltulip] enough to survive the next month and keep things going. Your average SAP Con will know all about this

[jmo21]

well you didn't say that, you said same price, half the time, not 30% cheaper!

any offshore can say that and win business from a client who only cares about cost.

[chicane]

If I have 6 months work, and 6 months to do it in, what does your offer of do it in 3 months for twice the money give me?

Now imagine you are that dev manager listening to an agent, or you yourself going direct, and hearing "I'll do it in half the time for twice the rate".

even if you are as tulip hot as you say you are, I reckon it doesn't come off as anything other than arrogance.

I'm thinking that there's been a degree of misinterpretation of my original post. I intended "twice the speed" to be a (somewhat extreme) example rather than a statement of personal ability - apologies for any confusion.

Strangely enough, if the whole issue is taken outside the realm of hourly rates and into more standard B2B fixed price territory, the business case for the client becomes a lot clearer. If I say I can produce a deliverable for 30% less outlay than my nearest competitor, at a higher quality, and have a track record and testimonials to back this up, doesn't that constitute a pretty clear cut business case for the client?

Yet clients seem to lose all sight of such logic once hour/day rates are introduced into the equation. I acknowledge that the client is taking a risk by paying hourly/daily rather than by deliverable - but that's their choice and not mine.

[jmo21]

The Dev manager will likely be the person most directly responsible for whatever the stated contract length is.

Now imagine you are that dev manager listening to an agent, or you yourself going direct, and hearing "I'll do it in half the time for twice the rate".

even if you are as tulip hot as you say you are, I reckon it doesn't come off as anything other than arrogance.

Pickle's list of reason's pretty much sums up all the additional reasons (after arrogance) as to why they won't believe you, nor risk it.

[Pickle2]

If you are working on a system that involves a customers ability to take new sales orders over the web as a very simple example then the speed at which you can deliver this functionality could be crucial and the increased rate to deliver quickly could pay for itself in hours/minutes.

OK, but thats still 10 bit support stuff. Still, you have a point - I just dont think there is much of a market for it.

High rates are usually paid on the bigger projects for the bigger companies. These usually have timelines in the months / years.

[swamp]

Without wishing to sound arrogant, I've been in the LAMP web development game for nearly 10 years working on some pretty high-profile stuff.

Herein lies your problem!

Sorry, but a decent developer does not do LAMP for ten years. Your should have moved over to Java or C# a long time ago.

[oracleslave]

You seem to assume that being able to do things quicker but a higher cost is something a project wants? Why? What benefit is there to that?

If you are working on a system that involves a customers ability to take new sales orders over the web as a very simple example then the speed at which you can deliver this functionality could be crucial and the increased rate to deliver quickly could pay for itself in hours/minutes.

[Pickle2]

You seem to assume that being able to do things quicker but a higher cost is something a project wants? Why? What benefit is there to that?

If I have 6 months work, and 6 months to do it in, what does your offer of do it in 3 months for twice the money give me?

It gets me a lot more risk. Im paying you double, so it costs me twice as much to find out you are actually tulipe after a month on the job.

It leaves me stranded when 5 months into the project the requirements change and you are no longer onsite, as you left 2 months ago.

If you want to up your rate but stay purely technical, you may need to move away from generic LAMP code monkeyness into something a bit more niche, or bring in some specfic expert vertical business knowledge. There really isnt much to diffferentiate an super excellent LAMP dev from a mereley good one.

[MPwannadecentincome]

Last time I was in the Jaguar showroom, the salesman kept telling me how much better the latest Jag was than my small Vauxhall. I would be able to go so much faster in the Jag - and it would save me time and therefore money. I wasn't convinced with his sales pitch and didn't feel it was worth the extra money.

Okay, I just made all that up, but the point is that value is in the eye of the buyer. If they don't think it's worth the money they won't pay it.

The reason for the deaf ears is that they've heard it all before (and probably been caught out more times than they can count). You may be correct in your efficiency rate - but they have no way of knowing that, especially when a dozen other people tell them the same thing.

However, surely regular clients of yours will have seen you in action and recognise your efficiency rate. If not, then you need to work on your marketing approach to ensure your achievements are recognised. Of course the blunt alternative is that you are simply not as good as you think you are.

Perhaps the trick here is to sell your value to the agent and remind them they get bigger commission if they successfully place you!