Notice periods again

[VectraMan]

I always said I'd never sign a contract that didn't give me a get-out, but I'm being asked to do so. The agent said (quite reasonably) that if it's meant to be project work, then you wouldn't reasonably expect a supplier to stop half way through the job and still be expected to be paid in full up to that point.

He also suggested it's better for IR35 this way, but doesn't that cause a MOO problem?

From my point of view, this is more about fear of commitment than anything else. I wouldn't leave half way through just because I thought I could get a bit more money somewhere else, but I'm more thinking about what if I get the once in a lifetime oppurtunity, or the plan B suddenly booms, or I find that I hate the gig so much I'd rather be poor.

Of course if I did want out there's always the turn up drunk / sleep with the boss' wife / send a substitute approach. Hmmm.

I'm aware I'm sounding like a newbie and ought to know better by now. In good times I wouldn't entertain this, but at the moment I can't afford to be picky. I don't think the agent is going to budge, and also I had competition so they'll quite possibly go to the other bloke if I kick up a fuss.

Suggestions?

[Moscow Mule]

He also suggested it's better for IR35 this way, but doesn't that cause a MOO problem?

Only if you expect to bill them for "not working" or they expect you to "be there" when there's nothing to do.

It's better if the contract is worded as ending when deliverables (code, project milestones etc) are complete rather than "work here for three months". This doesn't preclude you from charging on a time and materials basis.

[ratewhore]

I always said I'd never sign a contract that didn't give me a get-out, but I'm being asked to do so. The agent said (quite reasonably) that if it's meant to be project work, then you wouldn't reasonably expect a supplier to stop half way through the job and still be expected to be paid in full up to that point.

He also suggested it's better for IR35 this way, but doesn't that cause a MOO problem?

From my point of view, this is more about fear of commitment than anything else. I wouldn't leave half way through just because I thought I could get a bit more money somewhere else, but I'm more thinking about what if I get the once in a lifetime oppurtunity, or the plan B suddenly booms, or I find that I hate the gig so much I'd rather be poor.

Of course if I did want out there's always the turn up drunk / sleep with the boss' wife / send a substitute approach. Hmmm.

I'm aware I'm sounding like a newbie and ought to know better by now. In good times I wouldn't entertain this, but at the moment I can't afford to be picky. I don't think the agent is going to budge, and also I had competition so they'll quite possibly go to the other bloke if I kick up a fuss.

Suggestions?

Different people have different opinions re IR35, MOO and notice. There's nothing you don't know that we do so you have all the information necessary to make your mind up...

[The Lone Gunman]

I always said I'd never sign a contract that didn't give me a get-out, but I'm being asked to do so. The agent said (quite reasonably) that if it's meant to be project work, then you wouldn't reasonably expect a supplier to stop half way through the job and still be expected to be paid in full up to that point.

He also suggested it's better for IR35 this way, but doesn't that cause a MOO problem?

From my point of view, this is more about fear of commitment than anything else. I wouldn't leave half way through just because I thought I could get a bit more money somewhere else, but I'm more thinking about what if I get the once in a lifetime oppurtunity, or the plan B suddenly booms, or I find that I hate the gig so much I'd rather be poor.

Of course if I did want out there's always the turn up drunk / sleep with the boss' wife / send a substitute approach. Hmmm.

I'm aware I'm sounding like a newbie and ought to know better by now. In good times I wouldn't entertain this, but at the moment I can't afford to be picky. I don't think the agent is going to budge, and also I had competition so they'll quite possibly go to the other bloke if I kick up a fuss.

Suggestions?

Take him at his word. Be a pro. Obviously they can provide specific deliverables and dates. Negotiate a contract based on those deliverables. Payable on delivery of course. Any other work would be on a cost plus basis and you would be at liberty to turn down work you felt was not in your sphere of experience.

[VectraMan]

Different people have different opinions re IR35, MOO and notice. There's nothing you don't know that we do so you have all the information necessary to make your mind up...

To be honest I'm less worried about the IR35 aspects, and more asking "what's the worse that can happen?". I guess if I really did want out in the first month, the agent could sue me for their cut of the following 5 months.

I'm just thinking out loud really.

[ratewhore]

To be honest I'm less worried about the IR35 aspects, and more asking "what's the worse that can happen?". I guess if I really did want out in the first month, the agent could sue me for their cut of the following 5 months.

I'm just thinking out loud really.

Well OK, but in thinking out loud you've answered your own question. You've mentioned substitution and rinsing the CEO's wife. If you have the right of substitution then you could use it and you can't be sued.

But you knew that already...

[Turion]

The agent said (quite reasonably) that if it's meant to be project work, then you wouldn't reasonably expect a supplier to stop half way through the job and still be expected to be paid in full up to that point.

He also suggested it's better for IR35 this way, but doesn't that cause a MOO problem?

The agent is only interested in getting commision! Nothing else. He will say anything to get to those ends on his terms. Times may be bad, but are they bad enough to be listening to an agent as if he is some expert, in order to justify backtracking on your principles . No notice means a great deal of MOO on your part, and the client can fire you anytime. Hardly a fair B2B contract.

My advice is stick to your guns and the agent will more than likely cave in, if it's a genuine gig.

[Moscow Mule]

No notice means a great deal of MOO on your part, and the client can fire you anytime.

Where's the Mutuality in that?

[XLMonkey]

To be honest I'm less worried about the IR35 aspects, and more asking "what's the worse that can happen?". I guess if I really did want out in the first month, the agent could sue me for their cut of the following 5 months.

I'm just thinking out loud really.

There should be, within your contract, a limit of liability (the maximum amount that you can be made to pay for in the event of a breach of contract). That would be the worst that could happen.

Typically, if you break a contract, then the customer (in this case, the agent) is entitled to seek compensation to bring them back to the position that they would have been in if you hadn't broken it. This is more likely to be the cost of finding an alternative candidate, rather than their cut of the remaining term of the contract (although it could, in a real worst case scenario, be both).

On the bright side, the agent is right that these asymmetric notice periods are an anti-IR35 pointer.

[VectraMan]

On the bright side, the agent is right that these asymmetric notice periods are an anti-IR35 pointer.

Why?

Sounds like if I have no notice period, I'm obliged to accept any work they give me. And in this case they also have a 2-week notice period, which means they're obliged to pay me for 2 weeks if there's no more work (though I suspect they would change the latter as it's of no benefit to them).