Professional day - How many hours?

[kaiser78]

Ask for the contract to be de-drafted to the hours that suit you, once you have explained how you have left it only until this stage to question what you had signed.

[captcavey]

Ask for the contract to be de-drafted to the hours that suit you, once you have explained how you have left it only until this stage to question what you had signed.

I'll be going back in tomorrow to discuss the contract. The fact the "professional working day" was in there was questioned but it was 'sold' to us as we would have Thursday off if the other days were long days but paid for that day off (essentially a day in lieu). That has not been filtered from agent to company by the sound of it so I will be billing the company for hours worked or walking if they say no. We did nearly 8 days work in 5. Schoolboy error in not getting this locked down before start.

This was a very fast turnaround on them needing people, there are reasons that I understand which I will not go into here but I was also under time pressure due to only setting myself up as Ltd 2 weeks ago.

Lesson to be learnt from this - get it clear from both parties before signing right from the start. Although something says "Per day" you still need to know what that means to them so as to stop confusion down the line.

[DallasDad]

A 19Hr Day!

I could not mentally let alone physically do that more than perhaps once in a very blue moon.

I certainly would never agree to such in any contract because I don't think I could deliver consistent quality over those sort of hours to meet expected contractual obligations.

As for days off in lieu wouldn't it effectively mean fraudulently billing the client unless very clearly stated in the contract and even then why would they agree to do it.
Days off in lieu are for permies surely.

You seem to be deep in the tulip.

[captcavey]

I certainly would never agree to such in any contract

I need to be clear - the contract states "professional working hours" which I agreed to. To then be kept working (we were working in another country so I couldn't just go home) for 19 hours was a bit of a shock. We got the work done but I was exhausted after.

Like I say, lessons have been learnt

[FrontEnder]

I need to be clear - the contract states "professional working hours" which I agreed to. To then be kept working (we were working in another country so I couldn't just go home) for 19 hours was a bit of a shock. We got the work done but I was exhausted after.

Like I say, lessons have been learnt

You could've just left the site though shirley? I don't see how they can make you work.

They could well argue that you've agreed to it by doing that first one, so you might have to be careful. Personally, I'd have gone after the normal working working day, if they'd have asked to stay more, then maybe done an hour or two longer.

[psychocandy]

I'll be going back in tomorrow to discuss the contract. The fact the "professional working day" was in there was questioned but it was 'sold' to us as we would have Thursday off if the other days were long days but paid for that day off (essentially a day in lieu). That has not been filtered from agent to company by the sound of it so I will be billing the company for hours worked or walking if they say no. We did nearly 8 days work in 5. Schoolboy error in not getting this locked down before start.

This was a very fast turnaround on them needing people, there are reasons that I understand which I will not go into here but I was also under time pressure due to only setting myself up as Ltd 2 weeks ago.

Lesson to be learnt from this - get it clear from both parties before signing right from the start. Although something says "Per day" you still need to know what that means to them so as to stop confusion down the line.

Never trust any bugger especially the agent. Fast turnaround maybe but nothing is ever worth rushing and not sorting out in advance. No matter how urgent this role was, all it would have taken is a bit of effort to sort out whats what with regards to hours.

I certainly would have been nowhere near this one on the basis of normal days and day off Thursday in leiu. Sounds like a stitch up.

[psychocandy]

A 19Hr Day!

I could not mentally let alone physically do that more than perhaps once in a very blue moon.

I certainly would never agree to such in any contract because I don't think I could deliver consistent quality over those sort of hours to meet expected contractual obligations.

As for days off in lieu wouldn't it effectively mean fraudulently billing the client unless very clearly stated in the contract and even then why would they agree to do it.
Days off in lieu are for permies surely.

You seem to be deep in the tulip.

Yep if I was down for a scehduled 19 hour day I'd be like no way Jose. Even in an emergency this really is pushing it.

TOIL IMHO can sometimes be a necessary evil. But its got to managed carefully with a client you trust not to piss about. For instance, my current client, no budget for extra days etc but theres work to be done out of hours and at weekends. So I've got a few choices:-

1. Do it for free. Not sure about that one.
2. Refuse to do it at all. Strictly speaking I'm right not to but client now has a problem.
3. Do it without too much fuss. Next time I want a day off I book it.

I do (3). Not ideal but the lesser of the evils IMHO. Client gets work done and I can, in effect, still get paid for the extra work.

Got to have a client who you can trust though. i.e. Won't "forget" about the hours they owe you or moan later. Ive seen that before.

[psychocandy]

I need to be clear - the contract states "professional working hours" which I agreed to. To then be kept working (we were working in another country so I couldn't just go home) for 19 hours was a bit of a shock. We got the work done but I was exhausted after.

Like I say, lessons have been learnt

19 hours for the price of a PWD. Nuts.

[psychocandy]

You could've just left the site though shirley? I don't see how they can make you work.

They could well argue that you've agreed to it by doing that first one, so you might have to be careful. Personally, I'd have gone after the normal working working day, if they'd have asked to stay more, then maybe done an hour or two longer.

Client has now got a contractor who, they know will work 19 hours. And they can pay a standard day rate for this. Probably cheaper than paying the permies overtimes now! Even the nicest clients will get all they can out of a contractor if they can get away with. My current client is good as gold but Im under no illusion that if I said I'd do X for free they'd say OK then!

Sorry OP - you've been stitched up here big time.

[GillsMan]

So I've got a few choices:-

3. Do it without too much fuss. Next time I want a day off I book it.

I do (3). Not ideal but the lesser of the evils IMHO. Client gets work done and I can, in effect, still get paid for the extra work.

I agree tbh - though it does seem like you book a day off but get paid for it? Which is a little messy, but it's always worth looking for a pragmatic solutions which keeps the client happy, your reputation intact, and ideally, allows you to bill more.

19 hours for the price of a PWD. Nuts.

Completely agree. There's zero chance I'd do a 19 hour stint for the price of a PWD. Given that with some of my clients I can bill for a full day having done 5 hours, I'd look at that as nearly three days lost billing. I give a lot away for free to my clients, but no chance would I do that. Not even as a one-off.