Opt In/Out again !!!!!!!

[NotAllThere]

Go away Denny, you are not fooling anyone..

It seems to me, that being able to go direct after 12 weeks/8 weeks after end of contract, that it could be worth opting in, even with an IR35 contract, and paying IR35 tax. When you go direct, you can put your own contract in place. Just make sure that the Actual Working Conditions under both contracts, are firmly outside of IR35.

[TheFaQQer]

I'll repeat that last bit for the hard of braincells - EVEN IF ROOTSNALL WANTS TO OPT OUT, HE CANNOT DO SO NOW THAT HE HAS MET THE CLIENT!!!!!!!!

Maybe I didn't put that bit big enough - let's try again...

EVEN IF ROOTSNALL WANTS TO OPT OUT, HE CANNOT DO SO NOW THAT HE HAS MET THE CLIENT!!!!!!!!

Now let's look at the rest of the argument:

I've been in the game 9 years. You lot just quote some fuzzy employment law no-one except you disguised permies believe in. The PCG tried and partially succeeded in rolling back this legislation that would have destroyed our industry as we know it. We all would be on restrictive (worse than IR35) Payroll contracts now.

The law is quite clear - you must opt out, in writing, before being introduced to the client. The legislation indicates that this is intended to be when the client could identify who you were. For a temp, this is generally when they walk through the door and meet the client face to face; for a constractor this is when you interview. From that point on, the agrument about whether you opt out or not is moot - the legislation says that you CANNOT opt out for that contract.

That's why they objected, and you lot are f%cking things up by being dishonest, and trying to pick holes in the rules. Any judge in court will see right through you.

No, they wouldn't. A judge would interpret the facts and the law - the facts show when you were introduced to the client and when you opted out; the law shows that you cannot opt out at that stage, therefore you must be opted in.

You have no more chance of going direct now than you did. Agencies have T & C 's with the client you know.

I've done it. Whether I have a better chance or not of doing it than before the regulations came in, I haven't considered.

If you chose to be opted in you will get your employment rights as needed by agency employees. Don't spread your contagion to real contractors. No agency will pay you unless it is authorised by the client ie timesheets.

They will if they are sued and lose the case. If you can prove you did the work, and are opted in, then you can sue and you will win.

Question, Turion - in your nine years of contracting, how many times have you opted out of the EB regulations, in writing, before being introduced to the client?

Any time you don't do that, you are opted in - whether you choose to use your rights or not is a different matter.

[TheFaQQer]

It seems to me, that being able to go direct after 12 weeks/8 weeks after end of contract, that it could be worth opting in, even with an IR35 contract, and paying IR35 tax. When you go direct, you can put your own contract in place. Just make sure that the Actual Working Conditions under both contracts, are firmly outside of IR35.

IIRC, it's 14 weeks from the start of the contract / 8 weeks from the end, which ever is later. So generally, it's going to be 8 weeks from the end.

I've gone back to clients direct a few months after the end and had no problems with it - if I think that there is a chance that it might happen, then I will always opt in.

[Turion]

It seems to me, that being able to go direct after 12 weeks/8 weeks after end of contract, that it could be worth opting in, even with an IR35 contract, and paying IR35 tax. When you go direct, you can put your own contract in place. Just make sure that the Actual Working Conditions under both contracts, are firmly outside of IR35.

Who's Denny? Going direct was never an issue before, if you have the client on side. Without their co-operation there is no chance. I've gone direct simply by arranging my own contract with the client at renewal, adding the agent cut to my rate.

[NotAllThere]

Without client onside, there's not much you can do anyway. But some of us build quite good relationships with our clients.

The question arises - if I am opted in, and decide 8 weeks after the contract ends that I want to go direct, and the client wants to do that too, could T&C in the client/agency contract frustrate that, or would handcuff clauses in their contract be overridden by the opt in?

[TheFaQQer]

Without client onside, there's not much you can do anyway. But some of us build quite good relationships with our clients.

The question arises - if I am opted in, and decide 8 weeks after the contract ends that I want to go direct, and the client wants to do that too, could T&C in the client/agency contract frustrate that, or would handcuff clauses in their contract be overridden by the opt in?

The clause between the client and the EB could stop that happening, yes. If the client wants it enough, then they can put enough pressure on the EB so that they don't cause too many problems.

[The Lone Gunman]

Without client onside, there's not much you can do anyway. But some of us build quite good relationships with our clients.

The question arises - if I am opted in, and decide 8 weeks after the contract ends that I want to go direct, and the client wants to do that too, could T&C in the client/agency contract frustrate that, or would handcuff clauses in their contract be overridden by the opt in?

The opt in doesnt "override" any terms between the client and the agent. It does mean that your company will not have any legal comebacks from the agent/EB if you go direct.

[rootsnall]

Oh dear ! All getting a bit heated !

I'm on site and still signed nowt, they just sent me a contract with OPT OUT stamped on it but also had the wrong rate ( a lower one surprise surprise ! ). Pondering as we speak. Best get doing some work on Day 1. I'm a real business you know !

[TheFaQQer]

Oh dear ! All getting a bit heated !

I'm on site and still signed nowt, they just sent me a contract with OPT OUT stamped on it but also had the wrong rate ( a lower one surprise surprise ! ). Pondering as we speak. Best get doing some work on Day 1. I'm a real business you know !

I wouldn't be there without a signed contract, to be honest. You've accepted the contract by turning up, if they wanted to argue the point.

[rootsnall]

I wouldn't be there without a signed contract, to be honest. You've accepted the contract by turning up, if they wanted to argue the point.

Reality on the ground meant I had to be here this morning. I'd say I've started without signed contracts more times than I have started with one.