Self billing

[Vito]

Lots of businees work without producing invoices generally - small shops, taxi drivers - just off the top of my head

.

Thats a nonsence arguement...I'm surprised you haven't suggested that paper-boys don't produce an invoice. These examples are not B2B

[Old Greg]

Thats a nonsence arguement...I'm surprised you haven't suggested that paper-boys don't produce an invoice. These examples are not B2B

Agree - I want to produce invoices as payment is not made at the time the service (or whatever) is delivered (as it generally would be in the case of a taxi driver or. shop). I check payments against invoices (and sometimes it's incorrect.) The lady who charges me £5 a day to feed my cat while I'm away always invoices me and if I suggested I self-invoice, she'd quite rightly tell me where to go. I'm a newbie and not qualified or experienced to say whether it affects IR35 but it just seems sensible business practice regardless of IR35.

[Vito]

Agree - I want to produce invoices as payment is not made at the time the service (or whatever) is delivered (as it generally would be in the case of a taxi driver or. shop). I check payments against invoices (and sometimes it's incorrect.) The lady who charges me £5 a day to feed my cat while I'm away always invoices me and if I suggested I self-invoice, she'd quite rightly tell me where to go. I'm a newbie and not qualified or experienced to say whether it affects IR35 but it just seems sensible business practice regardless of IR35.

I'm no IR35 Expert either...but I think if you run your business in accordance with what you to believe to be best practice and the proper way to do things then you won't go far wrong.

[chicane]

Looks like this has been covered before:

http://forums.contractoruk.com/thread5203.html

Sadly, it seems that the agency can refuse to use you as a supplier if you're not willing to enter into their self-billing arrangements.

[Mustang]

I had the same issue: -

http://forums.contractoruk.com/showt...724#post223724

At the end of the day it is not necessarily an IR35 issue but it never hurts to take every opportunity to be seen acting like all other businesses.

HTH

[malvolio]

Looks like this has been covered before:

http://forums.contractoruk.com/thread5203.html

Sadly, it seems that the agency can refuse to use you as a supplier if you're not willing to enter into their self-billing arrangements.

Sadly someone is breaking the law. A self-billing operation has to have a "No thanks" option. If the agency refuses to play, tell both the DTI and HMRC, who will show a keen interest.

BTW, it has no effect on IR35 status; official opinion is that it's just a more efficient time recording mechanism. But it has to be voluntary, companies cannot dictate another company's financial practices.

[Vito]

Then this leaves a business decision to be made...recently when I could have done with the work, I turned down a very lucrative cash-in-hand deal because it didn't fit in with the way I wanted to run my company...these decisions can be very hard and there are no right or wrong answers...but wherever possible, think long term and be true to your beliefs. This often comes down to how confident you are that you are good enough to turn down work based on your way of working.

[chicane]

Sadly someone is breaking the law. A self-billing operation has to have a "No thanks" option.

I don't quite understand this; my interpretation of the HMRC guidelines is that your customer can refuse to do business with you if you don't agree to self-billing - does this not equate to not having a "No thanks" option?

From the HMRC website:

"We will not oblige you to agree to self-billing. However, your customer may make agreement to self-billing a condition of your making supplies to him."

[malvolio]

That's a subtly different point. You have to mutually agree to use self billing, it cannot be enforced.

However the agent could then withdraw the offer (at which point you write to the client and say "Sorry, can't work with you now because pointlesscumbag agency will not negotiate terms".) if you fail to agree to their conditions. I know the effect is much the same, sadly.

[billygun]

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

The advantages as I see them are:

1. Timesheet is authorised electronically by the client every Friday. Agency releases the funds the following Wednesday, Funds are in my business account on Friday.

2. No need to send invoices to the agency, although I keep a paper copy for my records.

3. The agency can't lose any invoices therefore no fannying around trying to re-submit lost ones.

I can't think of any disadvantages as my experience of self billing has been very good.