To B2b or not

[Bluebird]

silly question - whats a b2b contract ? [ business to business ] i.e Client direct to Contractors own LTD rather than thru agency ?

If so whats the problem with these or does it make them more 'ir35ish'

[Sockpuppet]

Makes then less IR35 prine as no agency is a pointer in HMRC eyes.

[Goya]

Makes then less IR35 prine as no agency is a pointer in HMRC eyes.

In English please.

[Bluebird]

So best to avoid then...
Could I also set up my own agency and pocket a finders fee as well !!!

[tim123]

So best to avoid then...
Could I also set up my own agency and pocket a finders fee as well !!!

No, it's not best to avoid at all.

With a direct contract, it's much easier to negotiate IR35 friendly terms. There is also an increased non pyment risk which must count for something.

Whatever the IR thinks (and I'm not sure that it's right to say that they think it is a positive IR35 indicator) a direct contract *is* a negative IR35 pointer.

tim

[Sockpuppet]

In English please.

I just re-read that. I have no idea why it came out like that.

[The Lone Gunman]

silly question - whats a b2b contract ? [ business to business ] i.e Client direct to Contractors own LTD rather than thru agency ?

If so whats the problem with these or does it make them more 'ir35ish'

A B2B contract is any contract between 2 businesses (is this realy that difficult) instead of a personal contract. You can have a B2B with your agent and your agent a B2B with the client. Most people would agree that B2B is better than personal for IR35 as it is your business that is contracted and not you directly.
If you have a B2B with your client then that is a direct contract and (I need to check the facts here) puts you clean outside IR35 as IR35 legislation only applies where there is an intermediary i.e. agent.

[Bluebird]

Thanks for that. so B2B is good, plus I guess without the "agent" you may get a better rate as there's nobody creaming off 9%

[The Lone Gunman]

Wrong. IR35 is about on-site working practices by contractors operating through any intermediary organisation whether an EB is involved as supplier to the client or not. This could just be a limited company or trade name as self-employed working direct to the client. If you look on the IR website there is no reference anywhere that states that IR35 only applies to EB supplied contractors otherwise it would be in the 'pointer' listings for the onworking practices under 'deemed employee' or 'own business.' You should read the IR35 case law more thoroughly - the IR are prepared to challenge direct contracts as well as EB supplied ones.

It's just easier to negotiate outside IR35 terms if going direct provided the on-site reality still matches those intentions.

Fair enough, I said I needed to check my facts there, was confused by a previous argument.

Intermediary meaning your own Ltd. company.