TCS Cognizant etc

[JPC]

I take it you mean 'I've', you illiterate muppet.

Stifled yawn... who prodded your little cage? Is that the best you can nitpick? Get in the bin.

[JPC]

I do apologise for the temporary slip in the quality of my grammar.


You were ‘pushed’ to another agency on a reduced rate. Why? Did the client think you were worth less? Or did the client pay the same but you took less? If the latter then you’re a bit of an idiot to agree to it.

The Indian outsources are well known for paying the going rate for your situation and making you train up the next bob off the boat. The fact they didn’t means either you don’t understand the market (well you clearly don’t if you think it might be fair), or you’re just not very good and they could easily replace you for less.

You can’t, repeat, can’t compete with these guys on price. You need to differentiate yourself, as an individual, with a mix of skills that are not easy to find.
If you’re just another dev who wants to be a bum on a seat, then your market rate is only going lower still.


Relating Tata’s profitability to your own situation is laughable. Have you any idea how large they are? And how small a part of their business IT consulting is?


Time to grow up and accept realities about how the world works.

Apology accepted.

Client seemed to have more drinks with new Agency dumped old for new who also claimed was promised more for less. As you are aware no matter what the client pays it's the parasite who governs what you are slung from the leftovers.

Tata's profit and power is everything to do with it. Im sure you have read about Amazon in the retail market, and how much they manipulate the suppliers dependant on them, no that's fine you obviously know best.

I've moved well away from the mainstream lines mopped up by them. But occasionally i still have inquisitive calls from them and each time no matter what the role when it comes from them it's 35% or so lower the expected day rate. Bit like Uber and Black cabs, whilst uber are just ripping the A out of the market Black Cabbies need to offer more but they've always offered quality of service.

Fully grown thanks for caring.

[Lance]

Apology accepted.

Client seemed to have more drinks with new Agency dumped old for new who also claimed was promised more for less. As you are aware no matter what the client pays it's the parasite who governs what you are slung from the leftovers.

Tata's profit and power is everything to do with it. Im sure you have read about Amazon in the retail market, and how much they manipulate the suppliers dependant on them, no that's fine you obviously know best.

I've moved well away from the mainstream lines mopped up by them. But occasionally i still have inquisitive calls from them and each time no matter what the role when it comes from them it's 35% or so lower the expected day rate. Bit like Uber and Black cabs, whilst uber are just ripping the A out of the market Black Cabbies need to offer more but they've always offered quality of service.

Fully grown thanks for caring.

"slung from the leftovers"
"manipulate the suppliers dependant on them"
"mainstream lines mopped up by them"
"35% or so lower"
"just ripping the A out of the market"

Show me on the dolly where the nasty Indian man touched you?


This is the language of a victim. Perhaps you don't need to grow up. But you do need to get some perspective. They're not going away. If anything they'll be stronger as a result of the current climate. Time to step up and offer a quality of service that the clients will pay what you believe you're worth...

..Or get a permie job... Then you can complain to HR..


/thread

[Old Greg]

Apology accepted.

Client seemed to have more drinks with new Agency dumped old for new who also claimed was promised more for less. As you are aware no matter what the client pays it's the parasite who governs what you are slung from the leftovers.

Tata's profit and power is everything to do with it. Im sure you have read about Amazon in the retail market, and how much they manipulate the suppliers dependant on them, no that's fine you obviously know best.

I've moved well away from the mainstream lines mopped up by them. But occasionally i still have inquisitive calls from them and each time no matter what the role when it comes from them it's 35% or so lower the expected day rate. Bit like Uber and Black cabs, whilst uber are just ripping the A out of the market Black Cabbies need to offer more but they've always offered quality of service.

Fully grown thanks for caring.

I take it you mean 'I'm' and 'dependent' and 'I', you illiterate muppet.

[LondonManc]

To be honest, this is little different from the "let's not get Made in China stuff" propaganda drifting round Facebook at the moment or the Brexit because "well, jobs innit" stances.

British dole-mongers are better off on the dole than picking fruit or having a whole variety of other jobs for a living. Scary fact.

Can we transition successfully (perhaps as part of a larger buying group) away from Chinese products as a backlash to Kung Flu? Maybe, assuming places like India, Indonesia, Philippines, etc can step up to the plate.

Can our out of work contractors and permies provide a better value service than the Indian consultancies? If TCS are handing out consultants for free at the moment, then clearly not. Eventually, though, that model will be unsustainable for TCS and they'll need to start charging again. The problem isn't TCS, though. The problem is companies and government allowing this to happen. We need some sort of protectionist policy that gives tax breaks to orgs engaging "locals" if this is what is wanted. Obviously the big issue is that plc priorities are to shareholders, not employees, governments, etc. Obviously they need to conform with legislation and regs but if that pushes them overseas then it's a false win. Clearly murkier waters than the other two situations.

[Lance]

To be honest, this is little different from the "let's not get Made in China stuff" propaganda drifting round Facebook at the moment or the Brexit because "well, jobs innit" stances.

British dole-mongers are better off on the dole than picking fruit or having a whole variety of other jobs for a living. Scary fact.

Can we transition successfully (perhaps as part of a larger buying group) away from Chinese products as a backlash to Kung Flu? Maybe, assuming places like India, Indonesia, Philippines, etc can step up to the plate.

Can our out of work contractors and permies provide a better value service than the Indian consultancies? If TCS are handing out consultants for free at the moment, then clearly not. Eventually, though, that model will be unsustainable for TCS and they'll need to start charging again. The problem isn't TCS, though. The problem is companies and government allowing this to happen. We need some sort of protectionist policy that gives tax breaks to orgs engaging "locals" if this is what is wanted. Obviously the big issue is that plc priorities are to shareholders, not employees, governments, etc. Obviously they need to conform with legislation and regs but if that pushes them overseas then it's a false win. Clearly murkier waters than the other two situations.

[CheeseSlice]

They deffo cost less - it’s their only competitive feature.

Not sure if this is still the case, but at least 10 years ago I saw massive onshore deployment of TCS, InfoSys, and Techmahindra brought here by a large UK client on Tier-2 visas. The client had an almost Imperialist desire to whip and work them into the ground, working all hours of the day if needed. The client managers were receiving their bonuses for hitting their deadlines, so the pressure really was on for these guys. The bob consultancies would just take it, with no striking, they just carry on.

My point is that whilst cost is a serious motivating factor here, some scumbag clientcos actually prefer to use these companies because of personal financial incentives and because of what they can get away with. Again, maybe things have changed now but this is what I can remember.

[CoolCat]

Not sure if this is still the case, but at least 10 years ago I saw massive onshore deployment of TCS, InfoSys, and Techmahindra brought here by a large UK client on Tier-2 visas. The client had an almost Imperialist desire to whip and work them into the ground, working all hours of the day if needed. The client managers were receiving their bonuses for hitting their deadlines, so the pressure really was on for these guys. The bob consultancies would just take it, with no striking, they just carry on.

My point is that whilst cost is a serious motivating factor here, some scumbag clientcos actually prefer to use these companies because of personal financial incentives and because of what they can get away with. Again, maybe things have changed now but this is what I can remember.

Well its not even a level playing field on money is it?
Cognizant et al get workers completely free of both employers and employees national insurance in their first 12 months in the country. They have over the years refined this to an art form. One trick is to partner two workers up and swap them every 12 months, one is here the other in India then swap, and swap again. So they perpetually have a worker here displacing a Brit from the workforce for who they have no need to pay any national insurance at all. There are other similar tricks.
I wont comment on what their current legal structure is, but “Cognizant UK Limited” used to be a company registered in Mauritius and not the UK. A lot of moving profit around so that taxes only became liable in tax havens was done.
To say nothing of the mass lifting of prime UK intellectual property and moving it to India, where it leaked and was used to undercut the British workforces.
Intra Company Transfer visas were originally invented to allow people with unique specialist knowledge of some unique process invented by the that company into the country, it has been abused on a grand scale to bring cheap low quality generic IT staff in.
The CV’s they give prospective clients are pack of lies, but the cost looks good in a spreadsheet.
The bring with them their caste on caste and anti white westerner racism, and its worth watching which castes they promote and use at the most senior levels. Racism that would be front page news if a normal UK company was doing it.
Any idiot can make money if you don’t have to pay the taxes everyone else has to, who can bypass the immigration rules that decent companies follow, pay expenses free of tax (unlike freelancers in the public sector caught already by IR35), and so on…

[Lance]

Well its not even a level playing field on money is it?
Cognizant et al get workers completely free of both employers and employees national insurance in their first 12 months in the country. They have over the years refined this to an art form. One trick is to partner two workers up and swap them every 12 months, one is here the other in India then swap, and swap again. So they perpetually have a worker here displacing a Brit from the workforce for who they have no need to pay any national insurance at all. There are other similar tricks.
I wont comment on what their current legal structure is, but “Cognizant UK Limited” used to be a company registered in Mauritius and not the UK. A lot of moving profit around so that taxes only became liable in tax havens was done.
To say nothing of the mass lifting of prime UK intellectual property and moving it to India, where it leaked and was used to undercut the British workforces.
Intra Company Transfer visas were originally invented to allow people with unique specialist knowledge of some unique process invented by the that company into the country, it has been abused on a grand scale to bring cheap low quality generic IT staff in.
The CV’s they give prospective clients are pack of lies, but the cost looks good in a spreadsheet.
The bring with them their caste on caste and anti white westerner racism, and its worth watching which castes they promote and use at the most senior levels. Racism that would be front page news if a normal UK company was doing it.
Any idiot can make money if you don’t have to pay the taxes everyone else has to, who can bypass the immigration rules that decent companies follow, pay expenses free of tax (unlike freelancers in the public sector caught already by IR35), and so on…

You can’t call them racist because that’s racist.....


Seriously though... it’s quite shocking how their senior management behave to the juniors (lower caste or Moslems).

When I have worked with them I’ve always got better results from going directly to the juniors, or via the Sikhs.

I’ve not come across anti western racism but then I’ve always been working for the customer so they bow and scrape.
I can’t imagine I’d last long working for them, but never say never, and if the price is right.......

[GhostofTarbera]

You can’t call them racist because that’s racist.....


Seriously though... it’s quite shocking how their senior management behave to the juniors (lower caste or Moslems).

When I have worked with them I’ve always got better results from going directly to the juniors, or via the Sikhs.

I’ve not come across anti western racism but then I’ve always been working for the customer so they bow and scrape.
I can’t imagine I’d last long working for them, but never say never, and if the price is right.......

Exactly this


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