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The dark side calls.

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    #21
    Sounds good

    That does sound a good offer. You can always accept and hang in there for six months or a year then see if anything else comes along. I am newly back to the UK and I'm not sure what the world has in store after April, so your offer nicely gets you through that period and if the people are good also its a winner.

    Comment


      #22
      Yes, should have mentioned, that includes what they say is base bonus. So perhaps that number is less attractive than it appears.
      Total base is around 100k ex pension, bonus etc.
      It's still a very generous offer.
      I am noticing many colleagues in other banks being offered similar. They tend to be working on mission critical front office projects, have lots of domain/ business knowledge and know the systems inside out.
      I think businesses are very very scared of having these guys walk because they've accumulated so much key man risk.

      Comment


        #23
        You know you'll regret it, don't you?

        You've heard that going back to perm never lasts more than a year. I'd heard that too, but I thought that I would be different. Oh yes.
        As someone who has walked this road let me tell you how it panned out for me.

        I'd got a bit tired of being away from home so often. I also felt that I had made enough money contracting and as I was offered a permie job that was commutable from home I took it. I thought I'd do it for a final few years as I eased gracefully into retirement. Seemed perfect, right?
        I lasted a year before I had to quit too. Not had to as in 'forced out' but for my own sanity.

        If you've been contracting for a while becoming a permie again is just horrid. You have probably forgotten what it was like: team meetings, lack of decision-making, needing to consult on everything (getting every brain in the game, even the dumb ones), absurd appraisals (I'm old school: if you don't want me, tell me to **** off and I'll go. But please don't torment me with developmental reviews and how I can improve my performance. Just **** right off!), team building activities, grievances, forced interactions with arseholes across the company, playing corporate games, woke whingeing at its finest, and generally becoming a suit, a drone, a Borg.
        Also, you can't get anything done at all. You identify a training need for one of your staff, say, then spend months fighting HR, budgets, the training liaison manager or whoever to arrange the training and eventually just give up because the bureaucracy is impenetrable.
        You want a new USB? As a contractor, you ask the client to provide one and if they don't, so what? Their ball, their game. But as an employee, it's now your ball and your game. You have to fight procurement and budgets, IT and IS security and if you're lucky you may get one in a month...all for a ******* USB!

        You have to deal with staff and all of their petty tulipe, such as -
        I need to work from home ALL ******* DAY because, well, take your pick: My dog's ill/I'm a lazy ****/If you complain I'll go straight to HR and mire you in a grievance/the precedent is set/INSET day at the school/I have a hole in my arse
        You asking me to actually do some ******* work is putting me under pressure. I feel harassed. Here come the unions and HR to tie you up in grievances and paperwork for the rest of your life......
        Why have you ranked person B above me? Is it because I am the youngest/oldest/fattest/thinnest? You're discriminating against young/old/fat/thin people! [Real answer - because you're a lazy twat who does **** all but complain]

        Honestly, all permies do is ******* whinge. As a contractor it ain't your problem. As their boss, it is now your problem.

        Come back in 12 months and let us know how you got on.

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by HugeWhale View Post
          You know you'll regret it, don't you?

          You've heard that going back to perm never lasts more than a year. I'd heard that too, but I thought that I would be different. Oh yes.
          As someone who has walked this road let me tell you how it panned out for me.

          I'd got a bit tired of being away from home so often. I also felt that I had made enough money contracting and as I was offered a permie job that was commutable from home I took it. I thought I'd do it for a final few years as I eased gracefully into retirement. Seemed perfect, right?
          I lasted a year before I had to quit too. Not had to as in 'forced out' but for my own sanity.

          If you've been contracting for a while becoming a permie again is just horrid. You have probably forgotten what it was like: team meetings, lack of decision-making, needing to consult on everything (getting every brain in the game, even the dumb ones), absurd appraisals (I'm old school: if you don't want me, tell me to **** off and I'll go. But please don't torment me with developmental reviews and how I can improve my performance. Just **** right off!), team building activities, grievances, forced interactions with arseholes across the company, playing corporate games, woke whingeing at its finest, and generally becoming a suit, a drone, a Borg.
          Also, you can't get anything done at all. You identify a training need for one of your staff, say, then spend months fighting HR, budgets, the training liaison manager or whoever to arrange the training and eventually just give up because the bureaucracy is impenetrable.
          You want a new USB? As a contractor, you ask the client to provide one and if they don't, so what? Their ball, their game. But as an employee, it's now your ball and your game. You have to fight procurement and budgets, IT and IS security and if you're lucky you may get one in a month...all for a ******* USB!

          You have to deal with staff and all of their petty tulipe, such as -
          I need to work from home ALL ******* DAY because, well, take your pick: My dog's ill/I'm a lazy ****/If you complain I'll go straight to HR and mire you in a grievance/the precedent is set/INSET day at the school/I have a hole in my arse
          You asking me to actually do some ******* work is putting me under pressure. I feel harassed. Here come the unions and HR to tie you up in grievances and paperwork for the rest of your life......
          Why have you ranked person B above me? Is it because I am the youngest/oldest/fattest/thinnest? You're discriminating against young/old/fat/thin people! [Real answer - because you're a lazy twat who does **** all but complain]

          Honestly, all permies do is ******* whinge. As a contractor it ain't your problem. As their boss, it is now your problem.

          Come back in 12 months and let us know how you got on.

          Your forgot about your 'doing work for charity/community' day and 'bake off' competitions.

          Comment


            #25

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by HugeWhale View Post
              You know you'll regret it, don't you?

              You've heard that going back to perm never lasts more than a year. I'd heard that too, but I thought that I would be different. Oh yes.
              As someone who has walked this road let me tell you how it panned out for me.

              I'd got a bit tired of being away from home so often. I also felt that I had made enough money contracting and as I was offered a permie job that was commutable from home I took it. I thought I'd do it for a final few years as I eased gracefully into retirement. Seemed perfect, right?
              I lasted a year before I had to quit too. Not had to as in 'forced out' but for my own sanity.

              If you've been contracting for a while becoming a permie again is just horrid. You have probably forgotten what it was like: team meetings, lack of decision-making, needing to consult on everything (getting every brain in the game, even the dumb ones), absurd appraisals (I'm old school: if you don't want me, tell me to **** off and I'll go. But please don't torment me with developmental reviews and how I can improve my performance. Just **** right off!), team building activities, grievances, forced interactions with arseholes across the company, playing corporate games, woke whingeing at its finest, and generally becoming a suit, a drone, a Borg.
              Also, you can't get anything done at all. You identify a training need for one of your staff, say, then spend months fighting HR, budgets, the training liaison manager or whoever to arrange the training and eventually just give up because the bureaucracy is impenetrable.
              You want a new USB? As a contractor, you ask the client to provide one and if they don't, so what? Their ball, their game. But as an employee, it's now your ball and your game. You have to fight procurement and budgets, IT and IS security and if you're lucky you may get one in a month...all for a ******* USB!

              You have to deal with staff and all of their petty tulipe, such as -
              I need to work from home ALL ******* DAY because, well, take your pick: My dog's ill/I'm a lazy ****/If you complain I'll go straight to HR and mire you in a grievance/the precedent is set/INSET day at the school/I have a hole in my arse
              You asking me to actually do some ******* work is putting me under pressure. I feel harassed. Here come the unions and HR to tie you up in grievances and paperwork for the rest of your life......
              Why have you ranked person B above me? Is it because I am the youngest/oldest/fattest/thinnest? You're discriminating against young/old/fat/thin people! [Real answer - because you're a lazy twat who does **** all but complain]

              Honestly, all permies do is ******* whinge. As a contractor it ain't your problem. As their boss, it is now your problem.

              Come back in 12 months and let us know how you got on.
              Absolutely spot on. You hit the nail on the head! I went permanent in 2015 & I lasted four months. I'm not proud of that but more or less from day one I regretted it & just had this overwhelming feeling of dread every day until the day I left. Hideous.
              If you don't have anything nice to say, say it sarcastically

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by KinooOrKinog View Post
                Absolutely spot on. You hit the nail on the head! I went permanent in 2015 & I lasted four months. I'm not proud of that but more or less from day one I regretted it & just had this overwhelming feeling of dread every day until the day I left. Hideous.
                2015 was the land of milk and honey for contractors

                Different world now, no contracts no limited company’s rate cuts


                Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by KinooOrKinog View Post
                  went permanent in 2015 & I lasted four months. .I'm not proud of that but more or less from day one I regretted it & just had this overwhelming feeling of dread every day until the day I left.
                  I managed 3 months a while back (good salary, no commute) but each day I could feel the life being sucked out of me in increasing amounts. Absolutely soul destroying. As a contractor you feel like you're getting paid for your time, as permie you feel like you're being punished for doing something very wrong in a previous life.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by HugeWhale View Post
                    You know you'll regret it, don't you?
                    Ha, Ha...thanks for the cautionary warning. I need it. I dont call it the dark side for nothing.
                    I last ditched contracting back in 2001 when the dot com boom crashed and burned. I lasted about 3 years.
                    I ended up in a city brokerage (of the old school) where my boss would do coke at lunchtime, and would crow to the obnoxious pimply traders that the only reason he hired an overabundance of
                    pretty young secretaries was that they were so nice to look at. It was like being at a testosterone overdosed male boarding school.
                    still, I picked up useful experience, and got snapped up at a vastly increased contractor rate when I jumped ship....and its payed off well over the last sixteen years.
                    Now, a different kind of storm is blowing in...nonsense regulations. times are looking increasingly tough for us.
                    I've been given a great offer at a place I like working at....perhaps I need a harbour to park my ship for a while. I know a lot of you would do the same in my position.
                    let's see where all this IR35 nonsense takes us.
                    After all, Permanent never really means Permanent.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by fargaman View Post
                      Ha, Ha...thanks for the cautionary warning. I need it. I dont call it the dark side for nothing.
                      I last ditched contracting back in 2001 when the dot com boom crashed and burned. I lasted about 3 years.
                      I ended up in a city brokerage (of the old school) where my boss would do coke at lunchtime, and would crow to the obnoxious pimply traders that the only reason he hired an overabundance of
                      pretty young secretaries was that they were so nice to look at. It was like being at a testosterone overdosed male boarding school.
                      still, I picked up useful experience, and got snapped up at a vastly increased contractor rate when I jumped ship....and its payed off well over the last sixteen years.
                      Now, a different kind of storm is blowing in...nonsense regulations. times are looking increasingly tough for us.
                      I've been given a great offer at a place I like working at....perhaps I need a harbour to park my ship for a while. I know a lot of you would do the same in my position.
                      let's see where all this IR35 nonsense takes us.
                      After all, Permanent never really means Permanent.
                      Ha love this " As a contractor you feel like you're getting paid for your time, as permie you feel like you're being punished for doing something very wrong in a previous life."

                      The problem with perm if youre not in a 'hockey stick' growth organisation. Things tend to move very slowly. Way way too slowly. So how much impact can you make in a year.

                      Probably not that much. And its difficult for an "A player" to stand out. Once you hit a certain level of promotion. Theres not that many more places left above you. Dave the CTO has been there 10 years. Hes not going anywhere soon. So you have to wait until Dave retires/leaves/gets hit by a bus.

                      But how long is that going to be 5 years, 10, 20?

                      Comment

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