Moving to Dubai

[krytonsheep]

Some of the struggles I've heard of are:

• Paying rent a year in advance
• Having to do 'border runs' so can you remain in the country a bit longer if a work permit hasn't come through.
• Fired with no notice ( it's dog eat dog even if you're working for a Global company).

[MonkeysUncle]

I went to Dubai for a 2 week holiday some years ago and then ended up going am month after for 4 days for work (working for a uk company with an office in Dubai). The difference was unbelievable.

2 weeks in the sun was great seeing all Dubai has to offer.
4 days seeing how people who live and work in Dubai put me off going there ever again.

I know all cities/countries have a seedy underbelly but in Dubai is was just so obvious and disgusting. What makes it worse I think is the image they portray of this idealistic, religious, friendly place where everyone is welcome (You are....if your an arab). This hypocrisy is just made things so much worse.

On another note I am sure I heard the economy in Dubai is really going down. I know a few people who have moved away from Dubai because it is just not practical living there anymore.

Spending time there enjoying what Dubai has to offer and living and working there are two VERY different experience.

[rogerfederer]

As someone at senior exec level I feel some facts are required for this thread - it stinks of naivety.

TL;DR: Don't move here if you value your freedom and like family links and true friendships.

Dubai is not a free country in which personal freedoms and desires are respected. The notion of anybody staying in Dubai, UAE or Oman as a base is a silly notion, period. Pre-2008 there was a lot of money to be made and some people went to this region to milk the cash cow whilst it was alive.

It (thankfully) died in 2008 and these countries now experience difficulty getting expats in. Why? Salaries and contract rates are far far far down on what they once were, to the extent they don't compensate for the hassle. Are you aware there are often water fees in these countries for accommodation? Huge electricity bills - hello air conditioning unit. These bills swallow up large percentages of expat salaries due to double digit increases in electricity and water costs the last few years.

Jolie, are you seriously telling me you don't have a friendship group and family to keep physical contact with? Dubai and co are not friendly to women. They are among the worst places I've had the misfortune to work and I would simply not recommend it. The main UK 'types' we see there now are people (who often don't understand mathematics) jumping over for an extra £20k on top of their package in basic management jobs who see it is as a Sex and the City lifestyle when obviously (I mean, really obvious) it's not at all this. Think:

*Freedom of speech
*Freedom of political viewpoints
*Freedom of sexuality
*Freedom of hobbies and activities

The countries themselves want to encourage expat communities without reminding you that many people are regularly arrested, not all making the UK newspapers, for trite infractions, such as holding hands, sharing housing with an opposite sex partner whilst unmarried; without even approaching the bisexual/homosexual scenario.

As someone who managed 1000+ people in these areas I strongly advice you not to move there as a base. If you want to temporarily visit then fine, but please think of the type of society and country you wish to contribute to. Unless you are originally from there then you're essentially there because the government wants some cash off you. It's a very unequal society and the governance structure tolerates you whilst they tolerate you. I don't see there being much of a market there in future and in fact the contracting market is now rubbish there anyway.

It's a trade-off between you getting some cash, having a base, easy access to nearby areas (although overall they're worth a holiday if you're into the outdoors, but not living) vs the other side: corruption, intolerable outdoor temperatures during certain seasons. My personal opinion is that living in a confined way changes your brain, to the extent that you may even find such destinations acceptable and you block worrying about anything else. You don't live like that here, so why are you ok with living like that in Dubai?

It's a very unequal society that relies on foreign (expat) advice to keep it going; I know plenty of people who have been for work and wouldn't go back. In thinking about it I know of none who have a desire to go back. I think that says it all, as the contractors on this forum are likely to have at least some fond memories of some countries they've worked in.

Dubai is fake.
Fake friends, fake emotions, fake structural setup, fake rights. This leads to fake relationships (no, not me!) and is a very weird thing to witness when you see groups of pretend 'friends' that are clearly not friends. You don't have this issue in most developed countries being an expat.

If you can handle that, by all means go, but I burst out laughing at your series of posts here as I can't really imagine what bubble you live in that even brought around the idea to move there.


'Reporters without Borders Press Freedom Index':
2019 World Press Freedom Index | RSF

Climate:
Climate of Dubai - Wikipedia

Some basic cost considerations:
The true cost of living in Dubai

The Cost of Expat Living: Average Expenses in the UAE | InterNations

Cost of Living in Abu Dhabi. Updated Prices Oct 2019.


If you still go ahead with this I can only assume you are off your head. I speak as someone who's been lucky enough to work in many varying types of country over the last twenty five years. The irony of this thread? You won't even make all that much money in Dubai, UAE or Oman! Yet you wish to sacrifice the invisible things you surely haven't considered.


One final comment:
To the person extolling India/Bangladesh: LOL!

Private international schooling and generic carbon copy high rise 'luxury' apartments may give you the impression of similar lifestyle to that of fully developed countries, but my advice to those (particularly with children) is not to move to India. Your lifestyle is better in fully developed Europe or Scandinavia. If you prefer the white supremacy of Australia then perhaps even there. There's a close local contracting market out there 1 to 2 hour flight away or eurostar; don't give up on free society for the faux temptation of the middle-easy. It's all lie and the dream died in 2008 - it was just a dream.

[Jolie]

I know it has been a while, but wanted to update this thread, just in case other single contractors in a similar position to me are considering this option as a way out of the upcoming IR35 changes.

My skill is very niche, there is little to no chance of the client finding a permanent employee to fill this position locally, not that they would want to because although there are probably a few years left until the projects are totally over, there's not always work required and I am paid on completion of each project.

There are very few contractors that have the skills relevant to my sector. In fact one agency once quoted that he had found only a handul of suitable candidates in the UK, but most if all of those were in contracts, so my client is quite rightly panicking.

In a very recent meeting, my client has sought legal advice and has now given me two options:

1. Remain in the UK as a PSC, outside of the current agency situation and invoice them direct on a project by project basis. (Not sure the legality of this and if it does dissolve any issue with IR35, but would welcome opinion.)
2. Move out of the country

My original intention was to move to Dubai, so I am continuing on that basis.

There are freezones in the UAE that now offer freelance packages. The freezone that you choose will depend on your area of expertise and the length of permit and visa will be unique to that package.

You don't need a local sponsor and can apply for each part of the process individually, which is great because if you fail at any part of the process, then you can just withdraw with a much more limited loss.

This is not an umbrella situation, once accepted you will be able to open your own bank account which can be used to receive payments from your UK client.

Here are the steps I am taking:

Apply for freelance permit from one of the freezones. You can apply for this online and approval is usually within 3 weeks. Once approved, you are expected to visit Dubai to pay the fee in person, so don't apply until you are ready to proceed. This is renewed annualy.

With the freelance work permit, you can then apply for:
An establishment card. This is required to apply for the visa.
The residency visa. In my case, this is a 3 year residency visa.

When you receive your visa, you will be provided with an Emirati ID card. At this point it's probably safe to assume you are ready to go and can then either arrange rented accommodation, or purchase of property.

Then you need to apply for a salary certificate, consulate and embassy letters as well as other letters required to open a bank account, obtain a driving licence etc.

If you get that far, then its happy freelancing all the way!

You are required to register for VAT, which currently stands at 5%. If, like me, you are only servicing UK clients, then you can apply to have this waived. If you take Emirati clients, then you need to account for VAT on each invoice.

Then the focus will be what to do with the limited company back in the UK. There will be considerable funds in the company that I will need to extract somehow. I am confident that my situation up until now is outside IR35 but I cannot be 100% sure, none of us can, because each case can end up with wildly different outcomes.

My main concern is closing the company and taking the money out will flag somewhere, along with my P85 declaration, will open up a can of worms. Surely it would be better to leave the company running and take the same income as I was before until the company runs out of money, paying UK taxes as I would have anyway. Then at that stage set it to dormant status. Again I would welcome your thoughts.

[jbond007]

The rules can change in any situation at any time and I am aware of the risks. I will choose the investment wisely and make sure I have an exit plan. I may just invest in a property to live and then take an umbrella situation in a free zone to limit the investment needed in order get a work visa.

I believe this is key and you're aware about it too. Hopefully your client in UK is willing to pay whichever umbrella company you use in Dubai.

[Jolie]

Honestly not a loaded question - what's the appeal of Dubai for you?

Without repeating the obvious, I am a single person with no ties, so the benefits of living in Dubai far outweigh staying in the UK. Plus I feel comfortable there, its safer, the weather is nice all year round, it has the activities I enjoy doing and I genuinely feel more at home there than any other country I have stayed in. I already spend a considerable amount of time there so it makes more sense to make it my place of residence.

[Jolie]

My understanding was this was only an announcement at this point but nothing has been implemented practically. Also, getting a 10 year visa will have requirements for a minimum amount of investment required. Not sure one person contracting company would qualify for 10 year visa.

You are probably right, which is why the freezone is likely to be the better option. But I will still try.

You could go the freezone route, but again there are minimum "investment" required depending on the freezone you choose. And if going to be running your own company, I believe it is a requirement in Dubai to have physical office space, which cannot be your home but could be Regus service office or similar. But it seems you're already aware about all this.

Yes already aware of this. I have a Regus account and have already identified where I want to be based.

Also, the rules in Dubai can change anytime, there is no requirement for public consultation. So if you're going to be investing significant amount to acquire a visa, hopefully you are on a very good day rate to cover these costs.

It looks like you've got strong ties to Dubai and may have good support system there, so you could give it a go !

The rules can change in any situation at any time and I am aware of the risks. I will choose the investment wisely and make sure I have an exit plan. I may just invest in a property to live and then take an umbrella situation in a free zone to limit the investment needed in order get a work visa.

[Jolie]

Yes, Dubai love people visiting and working there, hence they will appear nice. The UAE vision however, doesn't incorporate having expats making themselves home in their countries unfortunately unlike some other countries - just temporary visa's...

Agreed, its only ever going to be temporary visa's. They want you to bring money to the Emirates to spend and while you do that they will encourage you to continue. The problems only arise if you run out of money or even worse fail to make a required payment.

[jbond007]

I returned to India and re-settled in Bangalore and I can say I am happy and made a right move for the sake of children at least. Schools are far better in India even comparing to grammar schools especially on STEM subjects. Me personally doing on-off freelancing in UK/EU as my family became citizen before I decided to move out of UK. I have no intention to come back, only being here for my work/contract purpose. I had not bought any property, bought multiple properties in cash in India and future is secured. I can say there is lots of appeal moving back to India and I know many Doctors and other Indian professionals have been thinking on that direction and some did so as well.

India != Dubai

[molsang]

Honestly not a loaded question - what's the appeal of Dubai for you?

I returned to India and re-settled in Bangalore and I can say I am happy and made a right move for the sake of children at least. Schools are far better in India even comparing to grammar schools especially on STEM subjects. Me personally doing on-off freelancing in UK/EU as my family became citizen before I decided to move out of UK. I have no intention to come back, only being here for my work/contract purpose. I had not bought any property, bought multiple properties in cash in India and future is secured. I can say there is lots of appeal moving back to India and I know many Doctors and other Indian professionals have been thinking on that direction and some did so as well.