No I dont want to become PERMANENT

[WTFH]

The OP is simply a disguised employee - My proof? He is being asked to change to perm and quite certainly with no change to what he does or how he does it ...

Most worryingly are that fellow contractors dont seem to question or answer the puzzle of how a real "contractor" can become perm

You're off your rocker on that one.

Clients take on contractors for a variety of reasons such as:
1. They don't have the skillset in house
2. Their resources are temporarily stretched beyond an acceptable limit
3. They have a specific requirement that cannot be fulfilled by permanent employees
4. They do not have the funding for a permanent employee
5. They do not have the capacity for a permanent employee
etc.

Now, if the contractor is any good at their job, the client may realise the benefit of having that role filled by someone with their talent and wish to go to market to recruit someone.
Their most obvious first port of call would be the contractor, before throwing their net out.
The fact that a contractor says no and walks away makes them a contractor.
If they say yes and take the job, then they are no longer a contractor.

[madame SasGuru]

You're off your rocker on that one.

Clients take on contractors for a variety of reasons such as:
1. They don't have the skillset in house
2. Their resources are temporarily stretched beyond an acceptable limit
3. They have a specific requirement that cannot be fulfilled by permanent employees
4. They do not have the funding for a permanent employee
5. They do not have the capacity for a permanent employee
etc.

Now, if the contractor is any good at their job, the client may realise the benefit of having that role filled by someone with their talent and wish to go to market to recruit someone.
Their most obvious first port of call would be the contractor, before throwing their net out.
The fact that a contractor says no and walks away makes them a contractor.
If they say yes and take the job, then they are no longer a contractor.

He's not. HMRC's viewpoint from on high is that temporary staff - even if specialized resources that are not required for long are employees if the work is managed by an employee. Hence any augmentation of staff is inside IR35 as are all 5 of your examples above.

Now you can argue whether HMRC's viewpoint is the legal definition but things are definitely moving in HMRC's direction as next Tuesday will no doubt confirm.

[WTFH]

He's not. HMRC's viewpoint from on high is that temporary staff - even if specialized resources that are not required for long are employees if the work is managed by an employee. Hence any augmentation of staff is inside IR35 as are all 5 of your examples above.

Now you can argue whether HMRC's viewpoint is the legal definition but things are definitely moving in HMRC's direction as next Tuesday will no doubt confirm.

I agree, based on the sentence you added in "If the work is managed by an employee".
I didn't state that in my example.

[MattZani]

Hello All,

What is a nice/straight way of telling/shutting these guys up so they don't ask me to go permanent for the remainder 7 ish months I have left here? That is if I make it till the end of my assignment?

"I really would love to become a permanent but I have a terminal illness and will probably die within the year"

Then start coughing and excuse yourself to the bathroom.

[madame SasGuru]

I agree, based on the sentence you added in "If the work is managed by an employee".
I didn't state that in my example.

I'm happy to change it

He's not. HMRC's viewpoint from on high is that temporary staff - even if specialized resources that are not required for long are employees if the work is managed within the organisation. Hence any augmentation of staff is inside IR35 as are all 5 of your examples above.

I'm sure that will make your happy until you think through the consequences as this is implemented in the private sector. Remember CL1 was staff augmentation where capita stated that everyone is inside IR35 and even 50% of digital outcome contracts are being stated as being inside.

[northernladyuk]

I didn't expect much when I saw you replied but you've excelled yourself there. You could have put 12 random words together and still come out with something more useful than that.

Accountant have you your asked?