Negotation and interviews

**HankWangford** · 14 November 2006, 01:03

Originally posted by ilgitano

Hi All,

I've been lurking for a few weeks now, and have been trying to resolve a question about interviews and negotiations.

Is it ok to ask the client how much the agent is asking? or will the client not know til after the interview?

Given that the agent is usually trying to negotiate the lowest rate from the contractor (ie me - and I'm inexperienced at this) and the highest rate from the client, it strikes me that the best way to get a fair deal from the agent is to 'mention' numbers like this to the client?

Whats the etiquette regarding this? - Is the client 'supposed' to report this as some kind of 'breach' to the agent - possibly getting me blacklisted?

Feeling kind of isolated in this - 'united we stand, divided we fall' - strikes me that the agents are wanting to deal with contractors one at a time ... not as a group.

How paranoid do I need to be?

I have 15+ yrs embedded experience, and one agent says he is putting me forward at 26£/hr, which is 1£ above the minimums I have seen quoted.

ask the agent what his cut is, he knows yours. If he wont tell then go elsewhere. If you get it in writing and find out he's lying (if you get to find out) then negotiate an increase.

**boredsenseless** · 14 November 2006, 08:12

Originally posted by HankWangford

ask the agent what his cut is, he knows yours. If he wont tell then go elsewhere. If you get it in writing and find out he's lying (if you get to find out) then negotiate an increase.

If you really care what the agent gets then this is the best way. Never ever ask the client directly wait for them to offer the information. Any client who doesn't mind you knowing will tell you eventually. You of course could get one of the ones that view a contractor as a resource to be manager by the agent and therefore should under no circumstances discuss money with him.

The better (and ultimately happier) way is to decide what you think you would

a) accept
b) be happy with
c) think they were mad if they gave it to you

Then when negotiating with agents if you have a contract or are not interested really in the work you can start at c and work down to b if necessary. If you are desperate for work and/or the opportunity then start at b and work down towards a.

If you are always happy with your rate (because you set it not someone told you it) then you will feel free and good with yourself. You'll also find that you

a) don't care what the agent makes over the top
b) even if you knew it doesn't bother you

**Sockpuppet** · 14 November 2006, 09:50

Agreed. I dont care what the agent is making as long as I am making something that I am happy with.

Infact for my last contract I was actually told to increase my rate

by the agent as she "knew what the clients budget was".

Cracking!

**lukemg** · 14 November 2006, 10:31

I DO care what the agent is getting, but I don't let it cripple me on making decisions. Usually on preferred supplier deals, this isn't an issue but if you have concerns they are creaming a lot off the top (>20% say), then it's time to get more interested. The give away is the agent lowering your expectations on the rate from the first conversation you have and dropping it at the last minute after you have got the job.
If you can, dig in at this point and turn it down - the client will not be happy when the agent tells them you aren't going to start after all (although they will lie and say you slagged the place off/went for another job you never mentioned etc etc(try to get contact details for the client at interview, for feedback etc then you can get in touch if necessary))
Agent cut matters because :
- It screws the market as the agents seek out the most desperate candidate in order to pay them the least amount.
- You may be seen as expensive by the client when determining who gets cut etc.
- On renewal, there is obviously some scope for a rise out of the agents cut but I need to know what it is to push this.
- By choice I want the cash in my pocket, not anyone elses.
Most of mine have been PSL deals so not an issue (worst was my first, got done for 20%). If you can't control things, find out the going rate and dig in to get it.
Feel free to tell the client what you are getting, he can see both sides and will form his own opinion of the agent.

HTH

**ilgitano** · 14 November 2006, 10:40

Originally posted by lukemg

I DO care what the agent is getting, but I don't let it cripple me on making decisions. Usually on preferred supplier deals, this isn't an issue but if you have concerns they are creaming a lot off the top (>20% say), then it's time to get more interested. The give away is the agent lowering your expectations on the rate from the first conversation you have and dropping it at the last minute after you have got the job.
If you can, dig in at this point and turn it down - the client will not be happy when the agent tells them you aren't going to start after all (although they will lie and say you slagged the place off/went for another job you never mentioned etc etc(try to get contact details for the client at interview, for feedback etc then you can get in touch if necessary))
Agent cut matters because :
- It screws the market as the agents seek out the most desperate candidate in order to pay them the least amount.
- You may be seen as expensive by the client when determining who gets cut etc.
- On renewal, there is obviously some scope for a rise out of the agents cut but I need to know what it is to push this.
- By choice I want the cash in my pocket, not anyone elses.
Most of mine have been PSL deals so not an issue (worst was my first, got done for 20%). If you can't control things, find out the going rate and dig in to get it.
Feel free to tell the client what you are getting, he can see both sides and will form his own opinion of the agent.

HTH

That's pretty much my thinking - which is why I'm here. If I accept 26£ for example, which is still way above minimum wage in this country, then I am screwing the market for other contractors. And I'm one of those 'suckers born every minute' just letting the agent walk away with the same again maybe.

Sure I could be happy with that - and not give a damn that I'm helping to commoditise what are currently valuable skills.

**ilgitano** · 14 November 2006, 10:49

Originally posted by boredsenseless

... Never ever ask the client directly wait for them to offer the information. Any client who doesn't mind you knowing will tell you eventually. You of course could get one of the ones that view a contractor as a resource to be manager by the agent and therefore should under no circumstances discuss money with him...

Ok. The agent has already (almost always with me anyway) tried to get me to agree a rate already. I've refused to make a firm agreement - especially on the phone with a first call. It seems that I could just tell the client what I'm going to accept - or has the client already agreed a rate with the agent?

**scriptfromscratch** · 14 November 2006, 10:55

The client will already have agreed a rate with the agent, and I doubt the agent would even send you for interview without agreeing to one - how would he know if you would accept if offered? He'd just send someone else who would agree to a rate.

I always find if you are happy with what you are getting and the agent isn't a complete twit its better left unsaid - ignorance is bliss, the bitterness will eat you from the inside!

i love these bananas, sod chico bananas - every banana wants to be a CUK banana

**ilgitano** · 14 November 2006, 11:04

Originally posted by scriptfromscratch

The client will already have agreed a rate with the agent, and I doubt the agent would even send you for interview without agreeing to one - how would he know if you would accept if offered? He'd just send someone else who would agree to a rate.

I always find if you are happy with what you are getting and the agent isn't a complete twit its better left unsaid - ignorance is bliss, the bitterness will eat you from the inside!

i love these bananas, sod chico bananas - every banana wants to be a CUK banana

I can give a band - but what I would take depends a lot on who I'm working for. What if I see a position - and reading between the lines would take a lot less if the position is what I THINK it might be. Then getting to interview learn that it's not what I thought. Still happy to work there, but its not the kind of place I thought it was - but at more the usual rate.

Presumably I just tell the agent the rate that I would be happy to work for?

Did I say TAHT ? (hic) pass the beer pls'

**tim123** · 14 November 2006, 11:32

Originally posted by scriptfromscratch

The client will already have agreed a rate with the agent, and I doubt the agent would even send you for interview without agreeing to one - how would he know if you would accept if offered? He'd just send someone else who would agree to a rate.

For my current gig, the agent/client has most definately not agreed a rate between them before the client decided that he wanted me to start.

The client told me what the agent had put me in at, and what he really wanted to pay. The gulf between them was so large that it took all three of us to compromise before we had a deal.

In reality the client was TTP, but (a) I needed a job and (b) I'd far rather be turned over by the client than the agent.

AIH, it's a piss easy place to work and the rate isn't too bad under the circumstances

tim

Negotation and interviews