Consultancies providing services to pulbic sector and contractors....

[psychocandy]

As an aside to bullying PC (can we leave him alone please) I was chatting to a HR bod at Equal Experts last week as they were recruiting for a PS role. Asked about all of this and their line is that they don't provide permie-tractors rather they take on and deliver projects (think of a builder being engaged to build you a new bathroom, once thats done he's off) so would determine they are outside AND back all of their contractors as being so (if they didn't it would destroy their business model so not surprised). I would never work for them as they do a lot of work for HMRC and its the equivalent of a turkey voting for christmas but good to know.

There is that. The consultancies seem to want to keep their contractors. They're not going to say to them sorry we've got to take £150 a day off you in tax now because they know they'll just not renew.

[SlipTheJab]

Sadly I believe the right for Equal Experts to determine their status was removed between the initial consultation and the Autumn Statement - so I don't think its in their remit. And I doubt anyone at HMRC will determine any contractors there as outside in the early days (the risk news stories stating one rule for us and another for everyone else is just far too great).

But if EE say you are outside and you're not then its their margin that gets hit (don't forget they charge each bod out as at least twice what they pay the contractor, they will up their rate by 50%, gov will pay it as no choice and they will carry on), only loser is the tax payer but we know no one in government cares about that (its all about Daily Mail headlines at the end of the day).

[northernladuk]

Hypothetical - normally one needs something to jump to before bailing.

TF's back!!

[TheFaQQer]

But if EE say you are outside and you're not then its their margin that gets hit (don't forget they charge each bod out as at least twice what they pay the contractor, they will up their rate by 50%, gov will pay it as no choice and they will carry on), only loser is the tax payer but we know no one in government cares about that (its all about Daily Mail headlines at the end of the day).

The public sector body makes the assessment and tells the agency that they have to treat you as inside and deduct the appropriate taxes and remit those to HMRC. Either the agency does that or they pretend to do that - pretending to do that and getting caught risks more than just the margin.

Alternatively, EE convince the end client that you are outside IR35 and everything stays as it is - the contractor gets treated correctly and they are responsible for their own taxation. But I can't see (m)any public sector bodies being willing or able to essentially step away from making the assessment, which is where the "workarounds" fail in my mind.

[SlipTheJab]

The public sector body makes the assessment and tells the agency that they have to treat you as inside and deduct the appropriate taxes and remit those to HMRC. Either the agency does that or they pretend to do that - pretending to do that and getting caught risks more than just the margin.

Alternatively, EE convince the end client that you are outside IR35 and everything stays as it is - the contractor gets treated correctly and they are responsible for their own taxation. But I can't see (m)any public sector bodies being willing or able to essentially step away from making the assessment, which is where the "workarounds" fail in my mind.

Which is fine so long as the daily rate goes from 500 a day to 750 a day, like I say its all smoke and mirrors and the tax payer will foot the bill regardless.

[northernladuk]

Which is fine so long as the daily rate goes from 500 a day to 750 a day, like I say its all smoke and mirrors and the tax payer will foot the bill regardless.

Which it won't.

[barrydidit]

You do I've never bailed on a contract dont you?

Good for you PC.

So we are all happy that, even worse than a contractor sponging JSA between gigs, is the contractor who welches on an agreement?

[perplexed]

Sadly I believe the right for Equal Experts to determine their status was removed between the initial consultation and the Autumn Statement - so I don't think its in their remit. And I doubt anyone at HMRC will determine any contractors there as outside in the early days (the risk news stories stating one rule for us and another for everyone else is just far too great).

Surely EE would of course tell contractors, who they need to provide services to PS, everything would be ok. It's in their own interests.

I'd personally not touch PS for at least a year - a) we all know teething problems will crop up and b) get a better view of how the land really lies rather than hypotheticals.

[Nayab]

I'm very wary of this situation, but certainly not dismissive. I'd consider the merit/reward of any offer and compare it with the additional burden before deciding.

[Ltd ability]

So what's the upshot of AS then - avoid PS from April 17 onwards until they sort this out?

On a PS contract which ends in Feb 17 with talk of an extension but sounds like it may be one to swerve.