noobs elusive 1st contract

[northernladuk]

Sure, I understand that, especially when you're talking specific technology XP. But even then, someone who's maybe not too familiar with the platform, but who constructs well-written code in other languages and has worked on similar platforms and has done some other cool stuff. You gonna chuck them out the equation?

If there is someone at there better that is familiar then absolutely yes.

I've been handed solutions built by so called specialists which have turned out to be a pile of rubbish, full of bugs, and as they've buggered off onto another gig it's the permies who have to pick up the pieces, rewrite things from scratch. I've worked with so called specialists who've been horrendous company, total waste of money. So when it came to hiring contractors myself, I made sure they could think outside the box. In my view, someone with broader XP is going to have better appreciation for quality, can join the dots and think more laterally.

Sadly that's not how clients see it and as you are selling yourself to them you need re-think your position and be giving them what they want, not what you think they want.

[BrilloPad]

The vast majority of agents have never worked in technology they are just salespeople therefore they can only go on the list of words they get from the client.

If your CV doesn't match those list of words then your CV will be rejected.

Having helped employers then clients fill roles generally the first tranche of CVs are the ones that match the job spec exactly. However most of them are poor in other ways and only they have the minimum amount of experience required.
The second lot of CVs tend to have one or two skills missing but the CVs are better and the candidates look more experienced. The person hired tends to be someone from the second lot not the first lot.

+1

Often you have to be quite pushy and call the agent explaining why you are good for the job. Or offer them £1000 in a brown paper bag if you get the gig.

Agents are often as bad as HR at stopping people getting gigs.

[LondonManc]

Sure, I understand that, especially when you're talking specific technology XP. But even then, someone who's maybe not too familiar with the platform, but who constructs well-written code in other languages and has worked on similar platforms and has done some other cool stuff. You gonna chuck them out the equation?
I've been handed solutions built by so called specialists which have turned out to be a pile of rubbish, full of bugs, and as they've buggered off onto another gig it's the permies who have to pick up the pieces, rewrite things from scratch. I've worked with so called specialists who've been horrendous company, total waste of money. So when it came to hiring contractors myself, I made sure they could think outside the box. In my view, someone with broader XP is going to have better appreciation for quality, can join the dots and think more laterally.

I'm with NLUK on this.

If I want a SQL Server developer, I want someone with current experience, not someone who hasn't touched it since DTS was the ETL tool rather than SSIS.

If I want a BusinessObjects developer, I'm not going to take a Cognos person on because, hey, it's BI and a reporting tool's a reporting tool, right? More specifically, I'd want someone with experience of the version that I'm on, especially major releases.

In terms of BAs and PMs, industry specifics apply, whether that be retail, pharma, banking, whatever. I'd rather have a contractor with ten years of industry experience than twenty years as a BA but none of it in the industry in question. At the moment, you've got the mindset of a permietractor aka a disguised employee, a generic bum-on-seat PM.

[rjoe]

The vast majority of agents have never worked in technology they are just salespeople therefore they can only go on the list of words they get from the client.

If your CV doesn't match those list of words then your CV will be rejected.

Having helped employers then clients fill roles generally the first tranche of CVs are the ones that match the job spec exactly. However most of them are poor in other ways and only they have the minimum amount of experience required.
The second lot of CVs tend to have one or two skills missing but the CVs are better and the candidates look more experienced. The person hired tends to be someone from the second lot not the first lot.

Yeah, understand, that's how the system works. Will it always work this way I wonder? I guess until something better comes along.
Just feels broken to me, if that's how far we've come as human beings.
Gee, listen to me all sour grapes because I haven't got a contract yet!

[rjoe]

I'm with NLUK on this.

Sure, agree XP has to be up to date and relevant, and if the talent pool is big enough, of course you can afford to cherry-pick. I'm just saying there are certain skills which are transferable. Black and white 100% CV match isn't a great indication of capability - but at this point in time, it's all we've got to go on as a first step.

At the moment, you've got the mindset of a permietractor aka a disguised employee, a generic bum-on-seat PM.

OK thanks, need to shift that mindset.

[kaiser78]

Get a permie role if you can. Then keep applying for contracts.

Tread carefully with this approach. If you are in a permie role then you will have to serve some sort of notice period. In contracting you are generally expected to be available immediately, and if you are not, chances are the role will be offered to someone who is, unless of course you are the killer fit and client is happy to wait until you...

[rjoe]

Tread carefully with this approach. If you are in a permie role then you will have to serve some sort of notice period. In contracting you are generally expected to be available immediately, and if you are not, chances are the role will be offered to someone who is, unless of course you are the killer fit and client is happy to wait until you...

That's the dilemma I was hoping to avoid.

[LondonManc]

That's the dilemma I was hoping to avoid.

You can't.

What's the draw of contracting? If it's just money, don't do it.

[kaiser78]

The vast majority of agents have never worked in technology they are just salespeople therefore they can only go on the list of words they get from the client.

If your CV doesn't match those list of words then your CV will be rejected.

Having helped employers then clients fill roles generally the first tranche of CVs are the ones that match the job spec exactly. However most of them are poor in other ways and only they have the minimum amount of experience required.
The second lot of CVs tend to have one or two skills missing but the CVs are better and the candidates look more experienced. The person hired tends to be someone from the second lot not the first lot.

Was speaking to an agent last week and had to explain that a contract at Lloyds Banking Group where I have been at, is a different company to Lloyds Of London, which is the role she is recruiting for. Checked out the Linkedin profile and she has 1 months professional experience following a degree in some fancy arts subject that girls tend to take...

[kaiser78]

Tread carefully with this approach. If you are in a permie role then you will have to serve some sort of notice period. In contracting you are generally expected to be available immediately, and if you are not, chances are the role will be offered to someone who is, unless of course you are the killer fit and client is happy to wait until you...

That's the dilemma I was hoping to avoid.

So avoid the dilemma then, by making sure your war chest (savings) is topped up, finish the permie stuff and really flog yourself to the contract market. Be patient, something will turn up.