IR35 Working Practices Review and Software Code Reviews

[northernladuk]

Yawn (expected based on previous posting history).

If you read my OP you'd see that I said in practice. Can you really see a client, on go-live week say yes to 'I'm not around this week but I'm bringing my mate in'.

Task should take 2 days? I'm able to finish my tasks in 1.9 days

Maybe you are quite understanding RoS, where it will work and where it won't and what you've got to do to apply it. It's not blanket sub and just isn't suitable for certain situations. You also have to make sure the person that comes in is trained up on the systems at your cost. You can't just send any old body in. They have to be able to pickup where you left off without interruption which will require some handover from you.

[heyya99]

Maybe you are quite understanding RoS, where it will work and where it won't and what you've got to do to apply it. It's not blanket sub and just isn't suitable for certain situations. You also have to make sure the person that comes in is trained up on the systems at your cost. You can't just send any old body in. They have to be able to pickup where you left off without interruption which will require some handover from you.

Exactly, and do you know any scenario where this has happened in practice. I get the theoretical bit. I've had many clients where my suggestion of this would be laughed at, and rightly so.

[northernladuk]

Exactly, and do you know any scenario where this has happened in practice. I get the theoretical bit. I've had many clients where my suggestion of this would be laughed at, and rightly so.

Indeed. I believe one or two people have posted in the past they've done it but yes it's very difficult to actually pull off and why HMRC see most RoS clauses as a sham.

IT contractors warned on IR35 substitution clauses :: Contractor UK

[missinggreenfields]

Exactly, and do you know any scenario where this has happened in practice.

Yes

[sdyson31]

It will be the one between him and the agency. Very rarely will we get to see the upper contract. QDOS won't actually review the upper one anyway as it doesn't directly apply. They will take it as evidence when reviewing the contractors contract. For example, if the upper contract does not allow RoS QDOS will not fail the upper one. Instead they will point out that his has one but the upper doesn't.. It's the contract between the agent and the contractor that's being reviewed. Erm. Messed that up but you get my meaning.

Can upper level contract be looked at by HMRC at the time of investigation?

Many agencies are flexible these days and would allow you to review the lower level contract and if required can make it IR35 compliance? So there is a possibility that upper level contract might look total different to lower level IR35 Compliance contract.

[northernladuk]

Can upper level contract be looked at by HMRC at the time of investigation?

Many agencies are flexible these days and would allow you to review the lower level contract and if required can make it IR35 compliance? So there is a possibility that upper level contract might look total different to lower level IR35 Compliance contract.

Yep and yep.

[sdyson31]

Yep and yep.

so what is the point of reviewing lower level contract when there is a good possibility of upper level contract being inside IR35.

[northernladuk]

so what is the point of reviewing lower level contract when there is a good possibility of upper level contract being inside IR35.

I guess the answer would be it's complicated. The upper contract may not cover working practices as it is between the agent and client so different set of responsibilities. It will be about how those two parties engage and not how you do. Even if it does you can't do anything about it. You have to carry out the best diligence you can. I'd say you want to be more worried about your contract matching the working practices. For example if it had a fettered RoS and the agent changes it how do you know the client has seen it and agrees. Getting the wording of your contract changed is only half (or less) of the battle.

[sdyson31]

I guess the answer would be it's complicated. The upper contract may not cover working practices as it is between the agent and client so different set of responsibilities. It will be about how those two parties engage and not how you do. Even if it does you can't do anything about it. You have to carry out the best diligence you can. I'd say you want to be more worried about your contract matching the working practices. For example if it had a fettered RoS and the agent changes it how do you know the client has seen it and agrees. Getting the wording of your contract changed is only half (or less) of the battle.

You won't know the working practice until you start.

It is really complicated and harder to start a new contract on lower rates when it is not known if the contract is IR35 compliance.

[northernladuk]

You won't know the working practice until you start.

It is really complicated and harder to start a new contract on lower rates when it is not known if the contract is IR35 compliance.

To some extent yes I guess. Google the QDOS working practices form and have a look for yourself.

It's not compliant. It's inside or outside. When you say lower rates, what positions are you talking about. 1st/2nd line stuff?