State of the Market

[Snooky]

I am a card carrying member of the Labour Party

Out of interest, what are the benefits of carrying your card rather than leaving it at home in a drawer? Do you get discounts at certain establishments?

[jamesbrown]

Depends which leaked report you trust. Guardian saying £38k.

( Agree, btw, should be relatively higher, except for "genuinely" shortage occupations. Many occupations are "shortage" merely because the pay is crap, and the pay is crap because... )

Even higher than that, apparently:

https://twitter.com/JackElsom/status...10745035821245

[JustKeepSwimming]

They should scrap the surcharge and mandate health insurance for everyone who isn't a citizen/ILR. It should be a condition of entry, especially for tourists, to have health insurance the NHS can bill.

[BigDataPro]

Back to Bench from tomorrow. At least these 3 months gave that much needed relief after 11 months on bench.

[SussexSeagull]

Back to Bench from tomorrow. At least these 3 months gave that much needed relief after 11 months on bench.

Onwards and upwards.

[The_Equalizer]

I don't think that's true at all. You can't say they aren't worried with a proviso that just isn't working. Anyone with a hole in their bum should be very worried with what we've got in place currently, even considering todays announcement.

Perhaps I didn't put it clearly? Basically I'm agreeing with what you've just said. Integration per se which has sensible limits and brings in educated, productive people fine. The last 20 years haven't worked like that. New Labour called any one who objected racist and the Conservatives, well no idea what they were doing. They managed to bring down numbers from closer to home only to substitute them with people further afield several fold. Those skill shortages salaries are a con.

It is worth noting that 2022 figures included 400k worth of students and just over 100K of people from Ukraine and Hong Kong. Still everyone needs somewhere to live, medical treatment and kids need schooling.

[edison]

Perhaps I didn't put it clearly? Basically I'm agreeing with what you've just said. Integration per se which has sensible limits and brings in educated, productive people fine. The last 20 years haven't worked like that. New Labour called any one who objected racist and the Conservatives, well no idea what they were doing. They managed to bring down numbers from closer to home only to substitute them with people further afield several fold. Those skill shortages salaries are a con.

It is worth noting that 2022 figures included 400k worth of students and just over 100K of people from Ukraine and Hong Kong. Still everyone needs somewhere to live, medical treatment and kids need schooling.

I'm all for bringing in skilled immigrants. You only have to look at the USA and the very large number of successful tech companies founded or led by immigrants. I don't think the same applies to the UK unfortunately and I'm not sure how much economic benefit we're getting from so many extra students.

The number of UK higher education students has rocketed in the last 20 years by over 900,000 to almost 2.2 million. The biggest rises in the last few years seem to be in postgraduate students and those from China, India and Nigeria. There are almost 80,000 extra Indian students just in the last five years. Students on graduate visas can stay for up to two years after graduating without the need to have a job and can apply for any skill level job. They can also be transferred to the Skilled Visa route if they get a suitable job. (Not sure if this is changing with yesterday's government announcement.)

I'm guessing a large proportion of these foreign students go home once they graduate but even so, there must be a lot who remain here for at least two years and beyond.

I've seen hundreds of CVs in the last 3-4 years from foreign students who have studied here at to be frank, poor universities, and have stayed doing a mix of IT and non-IT jobs. Good for those universities in generating money as I think a lot wouldn't survive without them but it doesn't feel like we are really attracting the best talent.

[The_Equalizer]

I'm all for bringing in skilled immigrants. You only have to look at the USA and the very large number of successful tech companies founded or led by immigrants. I don't think the same applies to the UK unfortunately and I'm not sure how much economic benefit we're getting from so many extra students.

The number of UK higher education students has rocketed in the last 20 years by over 900,000 to almost 2.2 million. The biggest rises in the last few years seem to be in postgraduate students and those from China, India and Nigeria. There are almost 80,000 extra Indian students just in the last five years. Students on graduate visas can stay for up to two years after graduating without the need to have a job and can apply for any skill level job. They can also be transferred to the Skilled Visa route if they get a suitable job. (Not sure if this is changing with yesterday's government announcement.)

I'm guessing a large proportion of these foreign students go home once they graduate but even so, there must be a lot who remain here for at least two years and beyond.

I've seen hundreds of CVs in the last 3-4 years from foreign students who have studied here at to be frank, poor universities, and have stayed doing a mix of IT and non-IT jobs. Good for those universities in generating money as I think a lot wouldn't survive without them but it doesn't feel like we are really attracting the best talent.

Yes, foreign students are purely a cash cow for universities. At £46billon one if the figures are to be believed. For example, medicine is £30K plus £10K to use the NHS facilities. That's per year. What on earth has happened that universities need foreign student income to survive? My suspicion is the amount of cash a lot of them have been throwing serious money at new buildings including new student accommodation. Oh and university attendance for home students has gone from something like 1 in 50 roughly 100 years ago to 1 in 2. You'll see in a few (permie) job specs that the degree must be from a Russell Group.

[jamesbrown]

UK students are loss-making for many universities/courses as home fees have not increased since 2017. You can only cross-subsidise expensive with cheaper degrees to a certain extent. In other words, recruiting from overseas is a matter of survival.

[TheDude]

Out of interest, what are the benefits of carrying your card rather than leaving it at home in a drawer? Do you get discounts at certain establishments?

I got a great deal on a Michael Foot style duffel coat.