State of the Market

[MrMarkyMark]

Yeah for sure there are way too many contractors chasing fewer roles in relative terms & a lot of these ads are fake the role does not exist anyway! I think outside London & the SE its probably slightly easier as less competition & more genuine advertised roles. London & SE as many on here have said is a race to the bottom then wait for the rates to slowly creep up again once its obvious employing work visa contractors for low rates is a very bad idea should hopefully even things out a bit but as always how long can you afford to wait before jumping back in. 6-9 months gaps are not rare right now either I am told by the few agents I speak to at the moment its not uncommon for them to receive 200 CV's per hour of most general roles posted on jobserve & on premium paying roles as many as 500-750 CV's within a few hours.

And breathe

[glippiglop]

I am a tester so not a like for like comparison but oddly (in as much as things are normally running down for Christmas about now) the phone has been ringing a lot more this week.

Anecdotally from reading on here, people up North seem to be doing alright. Has the SE and London become oversubscribed?

I've just been boomed for a good contract in Liverpool after 6 months of looking in London (where I live). I've found the capital's clients to be extremely picky over who they get in for well paying dev roles, and they seem to have enough people to choose from that I can ace an interview and still get passed over for someone else. The reasons have been as pedantic as "I'd like someone who knows more programming languages" (I've used over 20 in my career), "you haven't used [outdated] technology X more recently" and even "you have a type A personality".

I don't blame the interviewers. I think it's a consequence of the number of tech jobs on the market not increasing enough to absorb the growing talent in the capital. Additionally, retention of tech staff in the capital is really poor. Startups come and go and the endless stream of job hoppers looking for better pay just amplifies the situation. I was gobsmacked when I found out that the team of four I interviewed with in Liverpool had been there for over 10 years each.

I'm planning to check out the northern cities over the six months while I'm there. As I see it they're in a far better position for growth, I can afford a house there, my skills are valued and all of that translates to a better QoL.

[pauldee]

I'm starting to think I should have kept my mouth shut.

To clarify, there isn't much work up here, house prices are extortionate, wage to cost of living ration is worse than London, there's not much entertainment in the cities and the countryside is not particularly dramatic.

All you London based contractors are probably better off staying put. Nothing to see up here.

[LondonManc]

I'm starting to think I should have kept my mouth shut.

To clarify, there isn't much work up here, house prices are extortionate, wage to cost of living ration is worse than London, there's not much entertainment in the cities and the countryside is not particularly dramatic.

All you London based contractors are probably better off staying put. Nothing to see up here.

You've seen Eastenders, they're a depressing bunch

I'll be back up north next year unless clients cover expenses or the gap between them and current rate. Miss the cobbled motorways, flat caps and steam-driven local transport.

[quackhandle]

You've seen Eastenders, they're a depressing bunch

I'll be back up north next year unless clients cover expenses or the gap between them and current rate. Miss the cobbled motorways, flat caps and steam-driven local transport.

Eee and a quick feeloop of t'local bike's tuppeny bits rount side o't'ginnel.

Ta-ra y'sh*tter. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bwdQIaOtHg)

qh

[LondonManc]

Eee and a quick feeloop of t'local bike's tuppeny bits rount side o't'ginnel.

Ta-ra y'sh*tter. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bwdQIaOtHg)

qh

Frighteningly I understood that and haven't even clicked the video link. Clearly I've not been assimilated yet.

[SueEllen]

I'm starting to think I should have kept my mouth shut.

To clarify, there isn't much work up here, house prices are extortionate, wage to cost of living ration is worse than London, there's not much entertainment in the cities and the countryside is not particularly dramatic.

All you London based contractors are probably better off staying put. Nothing to see up here.

The North is lovely.

There are so few people you can say "Hello" to everyone you meet. I can only do that at 3-5am in the morning in London.

Oh and they have theatres, museums, big parks and interesting country side plus if you live in a city they have lots of buses.

[SueEllen]

I've just been boomed for a good contract in Liverpool after 6 months of looking in London (where I live). I've found the capital's clients to be extremely picky over who they get in for well paying dev roles, and they seem to have enough people to choose from that I can ace an interview and still get passed over for someone else. The reasons have been as pedantic as "I'd like someone who knows more programming languages" (I've used over 20 in my career), "you haven't used [outdated] technology X more recently" and even "you have a type A personality".

I don't blame the interviewers. I think it's a consequence of the number of tech jobs on the market not increasing enough to absorb the growing talent in the capital. Additionally, retention of tech staff in the capital is really poor. Startups come and go and the endless stream of job hoppers looking for better pay just amplifies the situation. I was gobsmacked when I found out that the team of four I interviewed with in Liverpool had been there for over 10 years each.

I'm planning to check out the northern cities over the six months while I'm there. As I see it they're in a far better position for growth, I can afford a house there, my skills are valued and all of that translates to a better QoL.

You clearly have never interviewed people. The interviewers are to blame for not knowing what they want and thinking it is OK to waste people's time.

And the reason startups in London get job hoppers is because they don't pay people enough to live easily in the capital, don't give them a pay rise and expect them to work long hours.

There are companies just outside London in the SE who have had some of the same staff for years. I've contracted at firms who have had multiple people there for 10-15 years. They pay their staff enough to live in the area or commute from the outskirts of London, don't expect them to stay past 5.30pm, and generally give them an easy life. It's actually a shock when I contract for a London vs firm just outside London on the difference they expect in hours.

[LondonManc]

The North is lovely.

There are so few people you can say "Hello" to everyone you meet. I can only do that at 3-5am in the morning in London.

Oh and they have theatres, museums, big parks and interesting country side plus if you live in a city they have lots of buses.

I couldn't believe the contrast in two contracts I had a few years ago. Both involved walking down Oxford Street around half eight in the morning; one Oxford Street W1, the other Oxford Street M1. I couldn't believe how much quieter Manchester city centre was than London at that time of day.

[SlipTheJab]

You've seen Eastenders, they're a depressing bunch

I'll be back up north next year unless clients cover expenses or the gap between them and current rate. Miss the cobbled motorways, flat caps and steam-driven local transport.

Also think of the saving you'll make on Whippet Kennel Fees which you wont need when you get back ooop norf