State of the Market

[edison]

I'm happy to meet agents if food and drink are involved - usually there is because I'm happy to spend the hour getting newbie agents up to speed on basic technologies in my industry - so they can weed out the real no hopers.

I don't meet with total newbie agents because they don't really handle the sort of roles I go for. I have met some who were on their way up the agent ladder, as it were, for lunch/a coffee etc. I once met one young lady who was only about 25 at the time but she seemed really smart, asked lots of interesting questions etc. Six years later and within the space of three months, I got a call out of the blue from colleagues of hers saying she had recommended me for two roles.

One was very interesting and I was waiting on an interview date to be confirmed when the company canned the role due to Covid.

You never know when these kinds of things may lead to opportunities down the line, that's what networking is all about but of course, YMMV - you might have a complete numpty agent who wants to 'practice' asking questions on you...

[perplexed]

I don't meet with total newbie agents because they don't really handle the sort of roles I go for. I have met some who were on their way up the agent ladder, as it were, for lunch/a coffee etc. I once met one young lady who was only about 25 at the time but she seemed really smart, asked lots of interesting questions etc. Six years later and within the space of three months, I got a call out of the blue from colleagues of hers saying she had recommended me for two roles.

One was very interesting and I was waiting on an interview date to be confirmed when the company canned the role due to Covid.

You never know when these kinds of things may lead to opportunities down the line, that's what networking is all about but of course, YMMV - you might have a complete numpty agent who wants to 'practice' asking questions on you...

Met one account manager agenty things during a gig - he came to visit from London. Typical pinstripe suited geezer... "Yeah guys, you've done a great job,they want to extend you... I'll take you out to lunch next time..." - except the project was coming to an end, client said no extensions, obviously...

[GigiBronz]

If you aren't tied into a house/car payment you can always leave too, go somewhere warm and cheap. Relax, do a few certs leisurely over the course of 6 months and see if market improves.

Cost of living is so high in london it's almost cheaper to leave and not work vs work a perm job here. I don't know how anyone can survive on a perm salary in london.

I still don’t understand how people put up with it. A lot of them struggle with anxiety and mental health issue while working a job that doesn’t bring them any satisfaction, they barely afford the rent in a dump humid place and their idea of good food is an overpriced meal at the local pub.
They’ll never afford to live where they work and they rack up debt every day to buy things they don’t need or go on holidays they barely enjoy.
Only to fill the gap in their soul that gives them the impression that their life is going somewhere.
A lot of them although highly educated on paper are functiong idiots.
If you work on 70k in central London, put 10h per day, be stressed out evey day and only manage to save 6k/year. Is it really worth it?

[MisterLysenkiy]

I still don’t understand how people put up with it. A lot of them struggle with anxiety and mental health issue while working a job that doesn’t bring them any satisfaction, they barely afford the rent in a dump humid place and their idea of good food is an overpriced meal at the local pub.
They’ll never afford to live where they work and they rack up debt every day to buy things they don’t need or go on holidays they barely enjoy.
Only to fill the gap in their soul that gives them the impression that their life is going somewhere.
A lot of them although highly educated on paper are functiong idiots.
If you work on 70k in central London, put 10h per day, be stressed out evey day and only manage to save 6k/year. Is it really worth it?

IMO, 70K perm is indeed some lower boundary for London life beyond a survival, so agree on that (unless 2 adults in a family are working). Most of my past 10 years, I've been working in London, commuting from Brighton and have noticed that the majority of perm guys on IT-related perm jobs are in fact under 30-ies. Well, maybe 35 the max.. When older, they somehow tend to secure either very decent perm with much of benefits or just conractors, as we are here. But that's just my facts.

Younger folks tend to accept whatever pays anything at all, just to step on careers ladded, I know really good and motivated .NET devs under 30K perm and that's in London! They are very undemanding in their expectations, and often being fooled by gamification of work, with al these xboxes, nice offices with fruits and food (etc.), being brainwashed by "company values you soo much" in return of less pay, in fact. All around..

[founder]

I still don’t understand how people put up with it. A lot of them struggle with anxiety and mental health issue while working a job that doesn’t bring them any satisfaction, they barely afford the rent in a dump humid place and their idea of good food is an overpriced meal at the local pub.
They’ll never afford to live where they work and they rack up debt every day to buy things they don’t need or go on holidays they barely enjoy.
Only to fill the gap in their soul that gives them the impression that their life is going somewhere.
A lot of them although highly educated on paper are functiong idiots.
If you work on 70k in central London, put 10h per day, be stressed out evey day and only manage to save 6k/year. Is it really worth it?

i done it for almost 5 years with 30k in a flatshare

[founder]

any yeah, its not worth it

[edison]

I still don’t understand how people put up with it. A lot of them struggle with anxiety and mental health issue while working a job that doesn’t bring them any satisfaction, they barely afford the rent in a dump humid place and their idea of good food is an overpriced meal at the local pub.
They’ll never afford to live where they work and they rack up debt every day to buy things they don’t need or go on holidays they barely enjoy.
Only to fill the gap in their soul that gives them the impression that their life is going somewhere.
A lot of them although highly educated on paper are functiong idiots.
If you work on 70k in central London, put 10h per day, be stressed out evey day and only manage to save 6k/year. Is it really worth it?

Tech aside, unfortunately many industries are heavily concentrated in London. Media, advertising, broadcasting, big law firms and financial services just for a start. For many people, to get on the career ladder or to access the best opportunities, London has to be on your radar. I still would expect someone could save more than £6k a year though.

I remember back in 1994 dabbling in a commission only financial services sales job in London for a very short time. At the interview, my boss asked me what I would need to earn to have a decent lifestyle in London - he reckoned £35k. At the time I thought that sounded an awful lot and coincidentally equates to exactly £70k today considering inflation.

Nearly every couple I know in London earn at least £100k between them.

The comment about people buying things they don't need reminds me of the saying "People do jobs they hate to buy things they don't need to impress people they don't like." Maybe there's some truth in that.

[BigDataPro]

...People do the jobs they hate to buy things they don't need to impress people they don't like." Maybe there's some truth in that...

Well said. I have been unable to escape from the 1st, but at least never done 2nd and 3rd.

[The Bona Fide]

Maarning all,

Interesting one in my inbox this morning - c# asp.net programmer, Havant £200 pd, non-smokers only.

Are they allowed to do that? Sounds discriminatory to me.

[dsc]

Maarning all,

Interesting one in my inbox this morning - c# asp.net programmer, Havant £200 pd, non-smokers only.

Are they allowed to do that? Sounds discriminatory to me.

The £25ph rate you mean?