State of the Market

[eek]

Hiring overseas isn't exactly the walk in the park people seem to be making it out to be. Companies won't flip to that immediately.

You have consider differences like time zones, culture, language, different national holidays, pay rates, labour laws, etc etc. Yes they could pick up the phone to a large offshoring company and demand a team of 30 to start on Monday but that way lies madness.

A company looking to shift work to cheaper overseas resources also has to consider the correct way of letting go the UK based workforce.

+1 - I have some overseas resources I can call on to do work but it's blooming painful so I use them because they are good and efficient not because they are cheap.

And while you can offload back office functions abroad, once you start looking at customer facing roles you really can't as you never know when your client may want to see them in person.

[Old Greg]

Spot on. Although less pertinent for permie jobs as companies are forecasting Covid to be over in 2021 - during the interviews I've had recently they've said they would expect me back in the office.

Some employers do seem to be lowballing on permie salaries, to take advantage of the surplus of labour on the market. It's a very short-sighted strategy, because as soon as salaries recover, anyone who in any good will leave, and anyone who isn't will stay.

[sira]

Hiring overseas isn't exactly the walk in the park people seem to be making it out to be. Companies won't flip to that immediately.

You have consider differences like time zones, culture, language, different national holidays, pay rates, labour laws, etc etc. Yes they could pick up the phone to a large offshoring company and demand a team of 30 to start on Monday but that way lies madness.

A company looking to shift work to cheaper overseas resources also has to consider the correct way of letting go the UK based workforce.

Not necessarily overseas. A London headquartered company could have its workforce in cheaper parts of the UK at the moment. For example, the company I got an offer from recently mentioned that they have quite a few employees up in Scotland, even though the cost centre / desk location is London.

[sira]

Some employers do seem to be lowballing on permie salaries, to take advantage of the surplus of labour on the market. It's a very short-sighted strategy, because as soon as salaries recover, anyone who in any good will leave, and anyone who isn't will stay.

Indeed. However you're assuming that companies always want to keep permies long-term which isnt always the case. There are some cretin-like companies which take people on as perms for specific projects then drive them out afterwards. One of my friends joined a European Investment Bank a few years back as a perm - they made him to a project (on a very niche topic) and after 3 months they let him go due to "budget" issues. It was his first perm job after years of contracting

[Old Greg]

Indeed. However you're assuming that companies always want to keep permies long-term which isnt always the case. There are some cretin-like companies which take people on as perms for specific projects then drive them out afterwards. One of my friends joined a European Investment Bank a few years back as a perm - they made him to a project (on a very niche topic) and after 3 months they let him go due to "budget" issues. It was his first perm job after years of contracting

Another side of this is that the public sector often suffers from people joining in the downturn (when PS salaries look good) and leaving in the upturn (when they look not as good).

[GhostofTarbera]

I hear from my friend at Lloyd’s (yes my one friend) that 100% of the people that Lloydes converted to perms from contractors (pre Covid) have now been let go,


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[BigDataPro]

I hear from my friend at Lloyd’s (yes my one friend) that 100% of the people that Lloydes converted to perms from contractors (pre Covid) have now been let go,


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Really! I am aware 100's joined as permies. I was offered but I rejected it. Their rates were soooo poor!.

[SussexSeagull]

I suspect a lot of companies don't know what their working patterns will be long term so employing people from around the world, or indeed the other end of the country, might limit options if they decide to get everyone back in the office next Spring. Which isn't to say it couldn't happen long term once the dust has settled.

Problem with working from home part of the time and needing to be in the office the rest is train tickets don't really have this in mind. Generally if you are in the office three times a week it is cheaper to buy a weekly ticket so you probably aren't saving any money.

[LondonPM1]

I hear from my friend at Lloyd’s (yes my one friend) that 100% of the people that Lloydes converted to perms from contractors (pre Covid) have now been let go,


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More evidence if any needed that perm is somehow safer then contracting. Total nonsense. Perm is notice period and that’s it. Always has been

[The Bona Fide]

My current co has cancelled there office lease (3 floors hundreds of people) starting next June , already told everyone they can work from home forever

Some people paying £10-£15K just on commuting alone + 20 hour commuting are delighted, all the youngsters not form London have already moved back to the shires and saving £1200 a month in rent each

Company saving £1.4 million in office costs per year

Productivity up 30%

Feck the landlords in London and tFL and other city sandwich shops and pubs going bust

I live 10 mins from canary wharf it’s a ghost town


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I've seen various photos in the DM and others that show the deserted concourse at Waterloo at "rush hour" and I can't help wondering if the pictures were really taken at 5 am or they're using some trickery with their lenses to make the scene appear more deserted. The converse, I suppose, of those pictures which claimed to show sunbathers crammed cheek by jowel on the beach at Bournemouth when the reality was somewhat different.

I haven't been up to old London Town since before this crisis hit so I don't really know but I'll ask you, since you are a man on the ground there, is it really that quiet?