State of the Market

[BR14]

FOLPM1

[Old Greg]

FOLPM1

Amen, Brother.

[simes]

It's difficult if you're implementing technology but don't understand the technology. If you can't communicate with your team because you don't understand what they do and then if you also don't know the client side of it then that's pretty rough, you're just an expensive admin.

Sounds like you're saying you know the client business well but have no idea what is going on in your projects and now it's getting more difficult to get work. Maybe you're better off in sales?

Jane, I am sure you are not reading what I said and are just following your own agenda.

I am sure there are needs for both types of PM, but in my world this has quite explicitly not been the case. If the PM is supposed to know as much as the Solution Designer, then one might also say they can do away with an SD on the team. Or, if you want only an SD, then sure, but these have told me they cannot do, nor do they want to do all the planning and facilitating, as someone else said.

20 years as a PM would seem to suggest I am better off exactly where I am. But I thank you for your concern.

[jayn200]

Jane, I am sure you are not reading what I said and are just following your own agenda.

I am sure there are needs for both types of PM, but in my world this has quite explicitly not been the case. If the PM is supposed to know as much as the Solution Designer, then one might also say they can do away with an SD on the team. Or, if you want only an SD, then sure, but these have told me they cannot do, nor do they want to do all the planning and facilitating, as someone else say.

20 years as a PM would seem to suggest I am better off exactly where I am. But I thank you for your concern.

Nah I was pretty clear from my earlier statements that a PM only needs a high level understanding of the different aspects of the project. Of course PMs get away with having no understanding all the time, but it's not ideal.

You had stated that you were having a hard time finding contract work now (isnt everyone?) so i suggested a shift into sales where your strong understanding of the client's business/industry/etc would be valued. Lots of people make a killing in software sales.

[simes]

Nah I was pretty clear from my earlier statements that a PM only needs a high level understanding of the different aspects of the project. Of course PMs get away with having no understanding all the time, but it's not ideal.

You had stated that you were having a hard time finding contract work now (isnt everyone?) so i suggested a shift into sales where your strong understanding of the client's business/industry/etc would be valued. Lots of people make a killing in software sales.

In this, more than Any market, if anyone is having trouble getting a job in their own field, then shifting into sales with absolutely no prior experience I cannot really see as being in any way possible...

Anyway, I am going to tough it out. (Am pretty close to something but, until contracts are signed and feet are under a virtual table, I can't shout this one from the rooftops. Yet.)

[SussexSeagull]

Yes, it does carry risk but it's self perpetuating to some extent. It's common for hiring managers in financial services and retail to only consider people with sector expertise. Public sector can vary, partly as the various parts of it can be quite different. The NHS can be very different from central government or higher education can be different to local government.

When you talk about what people are seeking in generalists v specialists, this is sometimes called a 'T shape.' The horizontal bar of the T refers to breadth of knowledge and the vertical bar is the depth of specialisation. You can get various types of T depending on the balance between breadth and depth of experience.

I think a lot is market conditioned as well, i.e they might have to go looking outside their sector if they can't get anyone else. If it was just contracting I could understand it as they can expect off the shelf talent but when i was permanent the city was a closed shop as well.

I imagine some areas are extremely difficult for someone with more general experience to pick up but I think it is a crying shame that having a varied CV that shows a desire and pick up new things quickly is almost seen as a bad thing.

[simes]

I imagine some areas are extremely difficult for someone with more general experience to pick up but I think it is a crying shame that having a varied CV that shows a desire and pick up new things quickly is almost seen as a bad thing.

It is a shame, and it is bloody frustrating. And not only 'showing a desire', but if the contract duration is over six months, 'having successfully done.'

Irrespective of the above conversation (non-tech PMs), when recruiters say that I can't be put forward for something as I haven't done it before, the response, 'Do you see anything on the CV that has been done More than Once?', doesn't go down well. Every project has been different, every time.

[LondonPM1]

It is a shame, and it is bloody frustrating. And not only 'showing a desire', but if the contract duration is over six months, 'having successfully done.'

Irrespective of the above conversation (non-tech PMs), when recruiters say that I can't be put forward for something as I haven't done it before, the response, 'Do you see anything on the CV that has been done More than Once?', doesn't go down well. Every project has been different, every time.

It’s not you it is the market. I can tell you that financial services in London is well and truly messed up. One person I worked with has been out for nine months and is desperate for work so much so that he is thinking of leaving the Uk

I honestly don’t think it will get better either your job is to continue to apply and preserve at finding a job

As for the poster previously talking about £12 an hour temp position the mind boggles at what the future holds for contracting if that is true and not a call handler role.

[BR14]

this is worse than JtB FFS.

[SussexSeagull]

It’s not you it is the market. I can tell you that financial services in London is well and truly messed up. One person I worked with has been out for nine months and is desperate for work so much so that he is thinking of leaving the Uk

I honestly don’t think it will get better either your job is to continue to apply and preserve at finding a job

As for the poster previously talking about £12 an hour temp position the mind boggles at what the future holds for contracting if that is true and not a call handler role.

I can't see the City returning to any form of normality until people start going back to offices en masse and that is probably spring next year at the earliest. Problem is when the City struggles it tends to take everything else down with it (certainly in London and the South East)