State of the Market

[oliverson]

Oh a bounce back loan of £30k that was then taken out of the company as a Director's loan (£30k)...

HMRC won't be the only people calling - the fraud squad will be (although he will be one of 10,000s caught pulling this type of trick).

Where is the fraud in striking off your own company? I've taken professional advice on this you see. So long as I've not been guilty of misfeasance, the directors loan walks as well as the Corp Tax, VAT and Bounce Back Loan. I'll only get pegged with personally guaranteeing a company overdraft, but that's relatively small when you're walking away from around £ 85k. Only an idiot would try rescue a company with that kind of debt and in a market where the likelihood of continuing to land outside IR35 roles is let's say, 'unlikely'.

[eek]

Go take a look at Glassdoor for Developer jobs in Malaga. Loads and loads. Fair enough those are perm but there are also some contract opportunities to be had. I know because I nearly took one a few years ago but chose to stick with the London finance rates. Think the rate we discussed back then was €550 a day, plus accommodation, plus flights, which would be fine for me now, though clearly I don't need the accommodation or flights. But everything has changed since then. there is no NO London market (outside IR35) to talk about. There's also a few companies in Malaga city itself, along with Marbella and further down the coast at Gibraltar if necessary. Also, the international airport is fantastic and can reach most other places in Europe. It's an exciting opportunity.

I suspect the only reason you think there is a market for developers in Malaga at the moment is that you aren't looking - the entire world is currently hunkering down - I have work coming out of my ears but that is simply because companies wish to cut costs..

[oliverson]

I suspect the only reason you think there is a market for developers in Malaga at the moment is that you aren't looking - the entire world is currently hunkering down - I have work coming out of my ears but that is simply because companies wish to cut costs..

When I've sold the house, car and closed the company I will have absolutely no need to work at all. Not a single day. But I would do the odd bit of freelancing that comes along in the locations I've mentioned. You can't lie in the sun or play golf all day every day when you have world class developer skills like I have. But it's nice to be able to choose when to work instead of having to work every possible day to meet two mortgages and catch up on a tulipload of tax.

[eek]

Where is the fraud in striking off your own company? I've taken professional advice on this you see. So long as I've not been guilty of misfeasance, the directors loan walks as well as the Corp Tax, VAT and Bounce Back Loan. I'll only get pegged with personally guaranteeing a company overdraft, but that's relatively small when you're walking away from around £ 85k. Only an idiot would try rescue a company with that kind of debt and in a market where the likelihood of continuing to land outside IR35 roles is let's say, 'unlikely'.

Do you think HMRC will allow you to, especially when they can see that you have money they can collect with just a minor bit of work by pointing out your failings as a company director?

[LondonPM1]

Where is the fraud in striking off your own company? I've taken professional advice on this you see. So long as I've not been guilty of misfeasance, the directors loan walks as well as the Corp Tax, VAT and Bounce Back Loan. I'll only get pegged with personally guaranteeing a company overdraft, but that's relatively small when you're walking away from around £ 85k. Only an idiot would try rescue a company with that kind of debt and in a market where the likelihood of continuing to land outside IR35 roles is let's say, 'unlikely'.

Completely agree - Dont let some people on here talk nonsence - Your BBL should be classed as a salary - The company has no profits - It is insolvent - Its just a matter of time

Fold it and move on

[oliverson]

Do you think HMRC will allow you to?

I'm fully aware of the process. They can object to the striking off for sure but will they? I wonder how busy they are right now? Perhaps too busy to pursue lost causes. Here is what my adviser had to say on the subject:

As part of the winding up process, an Insolvency Practitioner is appointed independently and they will investigate the all directors conduct for the following offences; misfeasance- this is where you have paying yourself but not been paying the debts as they fall due, wrongful trading is where you have continued to trade but not been paying debts as they fall due and fraudulent trading which is where you have defrauded creditors or doctored books to show the company is solvent when in reality the company is insolvent.

If you are found guilty of any of these offences you could be personally liable to repay the debts, you can be disqualified from being a director of any limited companies and possibly face criminal action for fraudulent trading. If you are not found guilty of any offences the company is wound up and any debts purely in the limited company name are written off. You can still be asked to pay directors loans and personally guaranteed debts.

Misfeasance doesn't apply here because whilst I've been paying myself there are currently no debts that are due. The Corp Tax isn't due until end of December, the bounce back loan not while April and and VAT was deferred to end March due to the pandemic.

Similarly I haven't continued to trade as I've furloughed myself. I've not defrauded any creditors or doctored books either.

I'm certain it won't be a clear cut thing and there will be a lot of wrangling, which is why I'm glad my partner is a retired lawyer. I also suspect Brexit might also fall in my favour. So, on the balance of things, who wouldn't walk away instead of trying to repay all the debt, which would probably take several years? You can see the reference above to still being asked to pay directors loans. Good luck with that when I don't have to have an income.

[LondonPM1]

I suspect the only reason you think there is a market for developers in Malaga at the moment is that you aren't looking - the entire world is currently hunkering down - I have work coming out of my ears but that is simply because companies wish to cut costs..

I see then you should set up Accenture 2 -

If you have work coming out of your ears that contradicts todays FT article on redundancies and unemployment

[eek]

I'm fully aware of the process. They can object to the striking off for sure but will they? I wonder how busy they are right now? Perhaps too busy to pursue lost causes. Here is what my adviser had to say on the subject:

As part of the winding up process, an Insolvency Practitioner is appointed independently and they will investigate the all directors conduct for the following offences; misfeasance- this is where you have paying yourself but not been paying the debts as they fall due, wrongful trading is where you have continued to trade but not been paying debts as they fall due and fraudulent trading which is where you have defrauded creditors or doctored books to show the company is solvent when in reality the company is insolvent.

If you are found guilty of any of these offences you could be personally liable to repay the debts, you can be disqualified from being a director of any limited companies and possibly face criminal action for fraudulent trading. If you are not found guilty of any offences the company is wound up and any debts purely in the limited company name are written off. You can still be asked to pay directors loans and personally guaranteed debts.

Misfeasance doesn't apply here because whilst I've been paying myself there are currently no debts that are due. The Corp Tax isn't due until end of December, the bounce back loan not while April and and VAT was deferred to end March due to the pandemic.

Similarly I haven't continued to trade as I've furloughed myself. I've not defrauded any creditors or doctored books either.

I'm certain it won't be a clear cut thing and there will be a lot of wrangling, which is why I'm glad my partner is a retired lawyer. I also suspect Brexit might also fall in my favour. So, on the balance of things, who wouldn't walk away instead of trying to repay all the debt, which would probably take several years?

Oh it won't be clear cut - you will have a whole pile of assets and the liquidator will questions to ask about a clearly very badly run Personal Service Company - the liquidator will have a field day with you..

[clearedforlanding]

Go take a look at Glassdoor for Developer jobs in Malaga. Loads and loads. Fair enough those are perm but there are also some contract opportunities to be had. I know because I nearly took one a few years ago but chose to stick with the London finance rates. Think the rate we discussed back then was €550 a day, plus accommodation, plus flights, which would be fine for me now, though clearly I don't need the accommodation or flights. But everything has changed since then. there is no NO London market (outside IR35) to talk about. There's also a few companies in Malaga city itself, along with Marbella and further down the coast at Gibraltar if necessary. Also, the international airport is fantastic and can reach most other places in Europe. It's an exciting opportunity.

Dude, ask for the rates now.

The airport is fantastic. The airline industry is not.

I am half Spanish and from the region.

I was the CIO of a major tech company's Spanish division.

You are delusional if you think you are going to get passed the 'enchufe' in the Malaga tech arena at the moment, it's as bad as it was 30 years ago..

Can you speak Spanish?
Are you under 35?
Who do you know?
Do you know what enchufe is?
Are you aware of the jams crossing to Gibraltar? How will they be post Brexit?
Are you aware how much the ******* toll road costs?

Good luck.

[eek]

I see then you should set up Accenture 2 -

If you have work coming out of your ears that contradicts todays FT article on redundancies and unemployment

I automate processes to cut costs - you throw money my way and what used to take 5 people takes 2....