State of the Market

[Katalyst]

Whelp, won't pretend to be disappointed at my first no as a contractor. Apparently it's possible to fail a highly technical interview by answering too well - scared I'd pick fault and get bored of the role, apparently....

Now, I'm not saying it's related to the permietractor asking the technical questions also being the same permietractor who designed and built the stuff they need help with, but I can understand why he'd feel insecure.... onwards!

I was on a hiring panel where on one of the hiring managers said something to that effect. We had a candidate who was in in mid-40's, but this guy had the strongest C# experience I'd ever seen. He had published books, he had worked on the product development team for Microsoft on one of their core products, and he had been in charge of developing a ton of critical applications for well-known fortune 500 type companies - hell, he even build a full blown stock-exchange system for a small, rich country. The manager's worry? That we wouldn't be able to control him; he'll want to do things his way and not our way. Without having spoken to the guy, he already painted a picture of a stubborn, ivory-tower loner who would run amok building applications "his" way as he brushes off our loud objections. Instead, they hired a junior guy.

[vwdan]

I was on a hiring panel where on one of the hiring managers said something to that effect. We had a candidate who was in in mid-40's, but this guy had the strongest C# experience I'd ever seen. He had published books, he had worked on the product development team for Microsoft on one of their core products, and he had been in charge of developing a ton of critical applications for well-known fortune 500 type companies - hell, he even build a full blown stock-exchange system for a small, rich country. The manager's worry? That we wouldn't be able to control him; he'll want to do things his way and not our way. Without having spoken to the guy, he already painted a picture of a stubborn, ivory-tower loner who would run amok building applications "his" way as he brushes off our loud objections. Instead, they hired a junior guy.

So, yeah - I'm not quite a rockstar but I do have a great CV and I've been fortunate to get some epic experience. This year I started consulting on behalf of the vendor whose products I specialise in (Imagine VMware hiring a contractor to go out and consult on their behalf with big clients) - I thought this was going to make my CV like moths to a flame, but I'm actually worried it's stepped over a line in a way you describe. I've been applying earnestly for a few months now, and that was my first interview.

I don't want to be arrogant because I know there are other tulip hot guys out there, but I'm struggling to fathom how I'm not getting interviews at least. I'm being billed out at £3k a day to huge customers to literally do this stuff for the people who make the product - like, what more do you want! Go to the vendor, pay 6x times the rate and you stand a chance of literally getting me!

(For those wondering why I'm looking - the Vendor work is very ad-hoc and on and off, plus is primarily US based so doesn't really work for me)

[JohnM]

So, yeah - I'm not quite a rockstar but I do have a great CV and I've been fortunate to get some epic experience. This year I started consulting on behalf of the vendor whose products I specialise in (Imagine VMware hiring a contractor to go out and consult on their behalf with big clients) - I thought this was going to make my CV like moths to a flame, but I'm actually worried it's stepped over a line in a way you describe. I've been applying earnestly for a few months now, and that was my first interview.

I don't want to be arrogant because I know there are other tulip hot guys out there, but I'm struggling to fathom how I'm not getting interviews at least. I'm being billed out at £3k a day to huge customers to literally do this stuff for the people who make the product - like, what more do you want! Go to the vendor, pay 6x times the rate and you stand a chance of literally getting me!

(For those wondering why I'm looking - the Vendor work is very ad-hoc and on and off, plus is primarily US based so doesn't really work for me)

Sometimes you find when lead devs are on the interview and asking you questions sometimes you a good technical knowledge and experience can go against you, I have seen that a few times hence why I never try and judge interviews until I get a concrete answer

They see you as a threat, especially if they are not the best in terms of technical skills and are wary of what they actually do and how they work being made public to the management

[SussexSeagull]

I wouldn't claim for a minute to have a CV that impressive but I have had interviews for Test roles when you can tell in two minutes the Test Lead/Manager sees you as a threat.

[JohnM]

I wouldn't claim for a minute to have a CV that impressive but I have had interviews for Test roles when you can tell in two minutes the Test Lead/Manager sees you as a threat.

Exactly

And sometimes you can't tell either to be honest, I never ever predict interviews doesn't matter how well I think I do, whether I answer all the questions easily etc you never ever know

Thats why I hate them calls from the agencies when you finish the interview asking how you think it went etc you can never tell and more often than not they just want you to tell them what questions you were asked so they can tip the contractor going in after you for another interview off

[vwdan]

I wouldn't claim for a minute to have a CV that impressive but I have had interviews for Test roles when you can tell in two minutes the Test Lead/Manager sees you as a threat.

To be honest, this has blindsided me a little - I know it's just one person but it was a good opportunity. I've had similar "You seem over qualified" and "Are you happy reporting to [x]" type conversations, but they've all accepted my responses and to be honest they've been some good contracts. The smart people get you on board and take the credit for finding you at such a bargain price.

But this guy blindsided me with the idea a few moments before the interview was over and, frankly, didn't let me speak. But hey ho - man up, crack on! (And think about reworking my CV for some roles,perhaps!)

[jayn200]

I was on a hiring panel where on one of the hiring managers said something to that effect. We had a candidate who was in in mid-40's, but this guy had the strongest C# experience I'd ever seen. He had published books, he had worked on the product development team for Microsoft on one of their core products, and he had been in charge of developing a ton of critical applications for well-known fortune 500 type companies - hell, he even build a full blown stock-exchange system for a small, rich country. The manager's worry? That we wouldn't be able to control him; he'll want to do things his way and not our way. Without having spoken to the guy, he already painted a picture of a stubborn, ivory-tower loner who would run amok building applications "his" way as he brushes off our loud objections. Instead, they hired a junior guy.

What was the role? If I ran across a guy like that I'd probably build a role for him and try to rework a team around him, talent at that level is hard to come by. Definitely a missed opportunity.

If you're not willing/able to do that though I could see it being an issue. If you just hire him and throw him in a senior development role he might just get frustrated with all the tulipty legacy code he has to deal with and leave. Might even poison the team a bit before he goes. I've seen it happen.

[Katalyst]

What was the role? If I ran across a guy like that I'd probably build a role for him and try to rework a team around him, talent at that level is hard to come by. Definitely a missed opportunity.

If you're not willing/able to do that though I could see it being an issue. If you just hire him and throw him in a senior development role he might just get frustrated with all the tulipty legacy code he has to deal with and leave. Might even poison the team a bit before he goes. I've seen it happen.

Or for all we know, he may have been very happy working in the team and may have taken pride and pleasure in gently guiding our team towards better coding practices. In the end, I have no idea what he would have done or not done, because the main hiring managers didn't speak to him. I was very keen on hiring him, but I was outnumbered by people that judged him solely on his seniority and experience and made up stories in their heads for the rest.

[elsergiovolador]

I wouldn't claim for a minute to have a CV that impressive but I have had interviews for Test roles when you can tell in two minutes the Test Lead/Manager sees you as a threat.

This is a potential contract and there is no career in the client's company so to speak, so there is no need to answer in a way that will make lead think they are under a threat. You are there to do the project and leave.
Talk friendly, answer enough to pass and make sure to ask the lead questions that will put them in a good light. They should see you as a business that provides a service they can use and not a replacement.

[perplexed]

This is a potential contract and there is no career in the client's company so to speak, so there is no need to answer in a way that will make lead think they are under a threat. You are there to do the project and leave.
Talk friendly, answer enough to pass and make sure to ask the lead questions that will put them in a good light. They should see you as a business that provides a service they can use and not a replacement.

The fact that a company feel the need to engage an external company means that incompetent person will automatically be scared of being found out...