State of the Market

[uk contractor]

I've seen the same roles re-advertised over a two month period by various recruiters. I doubt these type of roles are real. It's likely more the case the recruitment agents sensing an opportunity to generate a sale back with the client when one doesn't genuinely exist. Safe to ignore these and move on.

And or someone failed the recruitment process vetting so back to square one! But like you I suspect a lot of these job ads are too good to be true some agents post fake ads to avoid getting the sack themselves to self generate fake business and keep the role a few weeks longer!!

[washed up contractor]

Nope not for me lots of fake job ads around or same role being re-advertised & or roles which they have to advertise due to HR rules about must see external candidates etc etc. Real world IT jobs market feels as weak as it has for many years but it all depends what you do if its a niche skillset then there are always roles around for those. Most dev, support & PM\BA roles are oversaturated with suitable candidates but few genuine roles to go around.

I've seen the same roles re-advertised over a two month period by various recruiters. I doubt these type of roles are real. It's likely more the case the recruitment agents sensing an opportunity to generate a sale back with the client when one doesn't genuinely exist. Safe to ignore these and move on.

Bear in mind a lot of these agencies are under the umbrella of a larger group. So, the same role might be advertised by one in the group, a few weeks later by another and a few more weeks after that, by a third agency in the group.

All separate agencies all advertising the one role 3 (or more) times.

Yesterday I saw the same role advertised by 2 agencies. One, the rate was £300 to £350, the other £250 to £300. Which one actually had the role, none, one or both? Was it even a pukka role? Who knows but people use it as an example that the market is picking up or bouyant.

My approach is the role is only live when I have confirmation of interview. Whether you get it is another question altogether.

[uk contractor]

Today there is a local government deployment lead role on jobserve with at least 7 different agencies advertising the exact same role!

[Andy2]

Talked to an agent who said that within an hour of posting a contract on jobserve he got 70 applications.

For the permanent jobs my experience has been that companies are willing to wait for many months to find that "superman" candidate, rather than go with some who has plenty of relevant experience but missing only a few buzzwords.

[uk contractor]

Talked to an agent who said that within an hour of posting a contract on jobserve he got 70 applications.

For the permanent jobs my experience has been that companies are willing to wait for many months to find that "superman" candidate, rather than go with some who has plenty of relevant experience but missing only a few buzzwords.

Best way into the area you want to be in is take a perm role then when they offer free training to move onto new techs take that as well! Its clear more and more companies would rather train perms than sponsor contractors unless its an essential must be done at the time project. I think the future is moving towards perm rather than contractor based and also a lot of IT jobs are clearly being outsourced (offshored, onshored, virtualised etc etc).

[washed up contractor]

In the past, some places wouldnt entertain a contractor trying to go permanent. They think only contractors would leave a permie job if the market picked up. The plain fact is a permie is just as likely to jump to another permie job elsewhere if 'the market picks up.'

[uk contractor]

In the past, some places wouldnt entertain a contractor trying to go permanent. They think only contractors would leave a permie job if the market picked up. The plain fact is a permie is just as likely to jump to another permie job elsewhere if 'the market picks up.'

Yep I agree with you there is a lot of discrimination around against ex-contractors trying to break back into permiedom. A lot of its to do with companies know they can just hire recent grads on £25-30K tops then train them up is a better spend than getting an experienced ex-contractor in on much higher salary. They promote existing staff then get recent grads to replace them and hope it all works out!! There are always exceptions of course but in general cost cutting is so common its overriding many other factors unless the project absolutely requires someone very experienced ASAP.

[ContractorScum]

Yep I agree with you there is a lot of discrimination around against ex-contractors trying to break back into permiedom. A lot of its to do with companies know they can just hire recent grads on £25-30K tops then train them up is a better spend than getting an experienced ex-contractor in on much higher salary. They promote existing staff then get recent grads to replace them and hope it all works out!! There are always exceptions of course but in general cost cutting is so common its overriding many other factors unless the project absolutely requires someone very experienced ASAP.

Then hire us contractors to fix the mess they have made. It's glorious!

[PermMCCon]

Then hire us contractors to fix the mess they have made. It's glorious!

Hummmm, we are over simplifying again.

I have been involved in Programmes before where I was a contractor taking over the mess made by the previous contractor... very easy to make out permie's are bad and contractors are good, but its not quite like that.

I have met some incredible contractors and permies, plus a bad bunch of both too. We all have I'm sure.

But yes, on the subject of contractors trying to become permies there is a feeling that;

a) they always want too much money and want to match their salary to day rates
b) they will go back to contracting if a "juicy" contract comes up


We don't help ourselves by always, ALWAYS falling into a) above, as that makes the employer automatically think of b) coming soon thereafter even if they hire the person.

Please try to remember that there are MANY advantages to permiedom, but earning a higher or matching salary to your contracting days is not one of them. If it happens, great well done you, but it is rarely the case.

I am a recent convert back to permie (so should probably change my name to PermMCConPerm!) and can tell you that no, I did not get a salary that matched my near £1k a day rate, but I am still very happy with what we agreed as an overall package (when you include ALL my new benefits, pension, bonus potential, holiday, security, work environment etc).

But there's no denying it guys, the 40% and 45% tax bands do hurt.

Anyway, this thread is about "state of the market". I can tell you that we get 100s of applicants per role... but it is banking and the rates are good.

[Big Blue Plymouth]

Hummmm, we are over simplifying again.

I have been involved in Programmes before where I was a contractor taking over the mess made by the previous contractor... very easy to make out permie's are bad and contractors are good, but its not quite like that.

I have met some incredible contractors and permies, plus a bad bunch of both too. We all have I'm sure.

But yes, on the subject of contractors trying to become permies there is a feeling that;

a) they always want too much money and want to match their salary to day rates
b) they will go back to contracting if a "juicy" contract comes up


We don't help ourselves by always, ALWAYS falling into a) above, as that makes the employer automatically think of b) coming soon thereafter even if they hire the person.

Please try to remember that there are MANY advantages to permiedom, but earning a higher or matching salary to your contracting days is not one of them. If it happens, great well done you, but it is rarely the case.

I am a recent convert back to permie (so should probably change my name to PermMCConPerm!) and can tell you that no, I did not get a salary that matched my near £1k a day rate, but I am still very happy with what we agreed as an overall package (when you include ALL my new benefits, pension, bonus potential, holiday, security, work environment etc).

But there's no denying it guys, the 40% and 45% tax bands do hurt.

Anyway, this thread is about "state of the market". I can tell you that we get 100s of applicants per role... but it is banking and the rates are good.

I just could NEVER do what I do contracting as a permie.

If it came to the crunch, I'd quit IT altogether & go and do something that pays a fraction of what I earn now but isn't as soul destroying.