State of the Market

[Sub]

I agree with both those points, and ironically those self same people who came over are in the same boat as the rest of us now.

Thing is that this narrative about immigration is always a distraction. You mentioned Brexit vote above and this is great example. There also were two years of anti-immigration hysteria before the vote and it worked like a charm. Despite Brexit was nothing to do with immigration from non-EU countries, despite 20% of NHS staff was from EU, despite potential loss of Northern Ireland (all that been in public domain). Farmers even managed to shot themselves into chin instead of foot.

And here we go again, instead of discussing Thames Water and need for private profits in essential infrastructure, workers rights, consistent cuts in public services and other complex, but actual issues everyone seem to be content to blame guys coming from other countries instead. Despite their only fault is desire to do better for themselves and their families and being unlucky to be born poor.

[SussexSeagull]

Thing is that this narrative about immigration is always a distraction. You mentioned Brexit vote above and this is great example. There also were two years of anti-immigration hysteria before the vote and it worked like a charm. Despite Brexit was nothing to do with immigration from non-EU countries, despite 20% of NHS staff was from EU, despite potential loss of Northern Ireland (all that been in public domain). Farmers even managed to shot themselves into chin instead of foot.

And here we go again, instead of discussing Thames Water and need for private profits in essential infrastructure, workers rights, consistent cuts in public services and other complex, but actual issues everyone seem to be content to blame guys coming from other countries instead. Despite their only fault is desire to do better for themselves and their families and being unlucky to be born poor.

As I have said elsewhere we need controlled immigration to this country but in what I do, IT, it went over the top. I was very much a Remainer (or rejoiner now I guess) but a surprising amount of quite educated people assumed all immigration was decided by the EU. You and me might not like it but that is just a fact.

The likes of Thames Water need to be sorted out and a sensible immigration policy needs putting in place. It isn't an either/or.

Offering a balanced critique of immigration isn't racist and it isn't even anti immigration. To suggest otherwise disingenuous.

[avonleigh]

Thing is that this narrative about immigration is always a distraction. You mentioned Brexit vote above and this is great example. There also were two years of anti-immigration hysteria before the vote and it worked like a charm. Despite Brexit was nothing to do with immigration from non-EU countries, despite 20% of NHS staff was from EU, despite potential loss of Northern Ireland (all that been in public domain). Farmers even managed to shot themselves into chin instead of foot.

And here we go again, instead of discussing Thames Water and need for private profits in essential infrastructure, workers rights, consistent cuts in public services and other complex, but actual issues everyone seem to be content to blame guys coming from other countries instead. Despite their only fault is desire to do better for themselves and their families and being unlucky to be born poor.

What has Thames Water, workers rights etc got to do with immigration? Sorry but you seem to have a chip on shoulder regarding immigration.

[escapeUK]

Despite their only fault is desire to do better for themselves and their families and being unlucky to be born poor.

At our expense. Making our lives significantly worse and us poorer too.

[squarepeg]

I agree with both those points, and ironically those self same people who came over are in the same boat as the rest of us now.

If I could sort out the balance of trade deficit with India I wouldn't be wasting my time on here. In fairness it is an emerging market but Whisky aside I struggle to see what we can offer them that they can't sort out themselves.

Weapons.

[Sub]

At our expense. Making our lives significantly worse and us poorer too.

Aren't immigrants coming here to work as a preferred choice of the employer? Which means they provide better value (same labor / less expenses). It look like employers are simply seizing opportunity, which is considered normal in capitalism. I don't think that an immigrant can come here to take anyone's job without employer's taking care of his visa, ILR, etc.
I would of think that this is employers (large businesses) who are profiteering at our expense, making our lives significantly worse.

[avonleigh]

Aren't immigrants coming here to work as a preferred choice of the employer? Which means they provide better value (same labor / less expenses). It look like employers are simply seizing opportunity, which is considered normal in capitalism. I don't think that an immigrant can come here to take anyone's job without employer's taking care of his visa, ILR, etc.
I would of think that this is employers (large businesses) who are profiteering at our expense, making our lives significantly worse.

Not better value. My experience is that cheap labour costs more in the long term. As you have to redo the work in most cases.

[SussexSeagull]

Weapons.

They seem to be doing ok on that front. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...2.cms?from=mdr

[SussexSeagull]

Aren't immigrants coming here to work as a preferred choice of the employer? Which means they provide better value (same labor / less expenses). It look like employers are simply seizing opportunity, which is considered normal in capitalism. I don't think that an immigrant can come here to take anyone's job without employer's taking care of his visa, ILR, etc.
I would of think that this is employers (large businesses) who are profiteering at our expense, making our lives significantly worse.

Absolutely.

[squarepeg]

Aren't immigrants coming here to work as a preferred choice of the employer? Which means they provide better value (same labor / less expenses). It look like employers are simply seizing opportunity, which is considered normal in capitalism. I don't think that an immigrant can come here to take anyone's job without employer's taking care of his visa, ILR, etc.
I would of think that this is employers (large businesses) who are profiteering at our expense, making our lives significantly worse.

No. The end client (the employer) pays only slightly lower rate or even the same rate as before. The consultancies take a large cut of the contractor/employee's rate. The quality of work is low. Over the last decade I worked on about half a dozen projects where either imported labour or offshore labour was used and the quality was awful. In one case it tanked a promising startup in the the other it took a whole year to not deliver an important project.