Verbally accepted public sector contract...

[El Snarfo]

Well, fair enough that is entirely possible. Do you think I'd be better off pushing for sight of the contract though, if I've already decided I don't want to go ahead with it?

[SueEllen]

It's really up to you how you handle it.

If you don't want to go through the background checks then tell the agent you are withdrawing because of that.

If you state you don't want to continue because of things you read on an internet forum expect the agency to tell you they are rubbish.

If you state you are pulling out because they won't provide a draft contract then the agency may provide one or simply say they can't

Ultimately the decision is yours.

[El Snarfo]

Thanks but just to clarify, the reason I want to withdraw is due to becoming aware of the public sector HMRC reporting requirements/potential IR35 minefield after the verbal acceptance. My intention has always been just to state that as the reason... I'm not sure it'll go down particularly well, but it's the truth of the matter.

[SueEllen]

Ultimately the decision is yours.

[Milkyway]

@OP: The reporting requirements and IR35 aspects are there even for private sector contracts... so I am not sure what your issue there is - to make you back out of the role.
The problem with public sector contracts is that they will ask YOU to give in writing that you are outside IR 35, while the contract they will provide to you to sign will be filled with IR35 alarm bells, which will make you clearly inside IR35.
That said, if you request them to make the changes to accommodate the fact that you can say you work outside IR35, they will not accept to amend the wordings, since their top-tier contract with the public sector client will not allow for that to happen.

So, this is the reason I always avoid public sector contracts. Its a IR35 minefield.
Even if you practice or intend to practice IR35 outside compliant work, the agency and the end client will not cooperate - be it amending the contract words, or with the working practices for the work.

Effectively, they will want you to take the risk of saying you are outside IR35 (and get a certificate to that effect) for that work, although they will never cooperate to let you do that.
That is public sector!

[LondonManc]

Thanks but just to clarify, the reason I want to withdraw is due to becoming aware of the public sector HMRC reporting requirements/potential IR35 minefield after the verbal acceptance. My intention has always been just to state that as the reason... I'm not sure it'll go down particularly well, but it's the truth of the matter.

Say that you cannot accept anything until you've seen the contract and had it reviewed. Simple as that.

[MrMarkyMark]

Thanks SueEllen.

Sounds like good advice, but as mentioned I am a little way into the process so it might be a bit late to raise an objection to the screening procedure.

However I have still yet to see the contract. The agency wants all the existing paperwork in before sending out the contract, this includes a due diligence checklist for the client which includes a question about me being satisfied that the services provided fall outside the scope of IR35. In fact this is what triggered me to read up on public sector IR35 stuff in the first place.

I said to the agency I can't check this box without seeing the contract, and have asked for a draft copy of it to send for review, which they agreed to but are slow-balling for some reason.

Clearly it's anticipated that the gig is outside of the scope of IR35 but I have now seen the legislation, reporting requirements etc and would rather have no part in it...

A bit of advice, when you verbally accept something add the suffix "subject to contract and review" on the end.

And this:-

Say that you cannot accept anything until you've seen the contract and had it reviewed. Simple as that

[DaveB]

@OP: The reporting requirements and IR35 aspects are there even for private sector contracts... so I am not sure what your issue there is - to make you back out of the role.
The problem with public sector contracts is that they will ask YOU to give in writing that you are outside IR 35, while the contract they will provide to you to sign will be filled with IR35 alarm bells, which will make you clearly inside IR35.
That said, if you request them to make the changes to accommodate the fact that you can say you work outside IR35, they will not accept to amend the wordings, since their top-tier contract with the public sector client will not allow for that to happen.

So, this is the reason I always avoid public sector contracts. Its a IR35 minefield.
Even if you practice or intend to practice IR35 outside compliant work, the agency and the end client will not cooperate - be it amending the contract words, or with the working practices for the work.

Effectively, they will want you to take the risk of saying you are outside IR35 (and get a certificate to that effect) for that work, although they will never cooperate to let you do that.
That is public sector!

Not quite.

Yes the agency reporting requirements apply to all contracts, not just for public sector roles. Regardless of who you work for HMRC will know you are contracting through a Ltd. Company.

However, 95% of public sector work now all goes through under the Contingent Labour One framework (AKA CLone) managed by Capita. If you contract directly through Capita you will get the standard CLone contract. This was a debacle when first introduced but was withdrawn and redrafted with input from the PCG as they then were (Now IPSE) and made IR35 friendly. You should still get a review, and include working practices in that, but there is no immediate reason to assume you will be IR35 caught as a result.

If you are going through another agency then they will either be dealing direct with the end client, unusual but it happens, or with Capita under the CLone framework. You will get a contract from the agency that should reflect the CLone contract, but they don't always. Again, get it reviewed and negotiate as normal. If the agency won't amend the contract then it's down to them, nothing to do with it being public sector.

There will be a clause the contract that states that you will provide information to the client to confirm that you are complying with 3 bits of legislation.

(a) the Income Tax (Earnings and Pensions) Act 2003 and all other statutes and regulations relating to income tax; and
(b) the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 and all other statutes and regulations relating to national insurance
(c) Social Security Contributions (Intermediaries) Regulations 2000

You can be outside IR35 and meet this requirement. QDOS, Accountax and others provide an IR35 review service specifically aimed at this situation. Their review results will be accepted by the client department. No information gets passed to HMRC unless you refuse to cooperate. The Client departments don't care and largely don't understand. They just want to get a tick in the box on their report to keep the Treasury happy.

Public sector gigs are not really any more at risk of IR35 than any others provided you do your due diligence on the contracts and behave like a contractor.

Long thread on the changes to Public Sector contracts here: http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...ntracting.html

Another on the Agency reporting requirements here : http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...uirements.html

[El Snarfo]

@OP: The reporting requirements and IR35 aspects are there even for private sector contracts... so I am not sure what your issue there is - to make you back out of the role.

I might have got a little mixed up in my terminology, the reporting requirements I was referring to are the ones which require public bodies to provide assurance that the correct tax is being paid by their contractors as detailed here - Contractor guide to the UK public sector off-payroll rules

In my specific case the client has a working practices questionnaire which is used to assess IR35 status, which looks to me like it could go either way depending on the whim of the manager who signs it off and the 3rd party who assesses it.

Before being issued a contract I am expected to complete a due diligence form that states whether my services are outside of IR35... It just seems like a bit of a minefield.

Say that you cannot accept anything until you've seen the contract and had it reviewed. Simple as that.

Well, I've asked again and now received a draft of the contract which I've sent off for review. On the whole it doesn't seem too bad but there are a couple of red flags which don't look good, especially considering the phrasing of the aforementioned questionnaire.

A bit of advice, when you verbally accept something add the suffix "subject to contract and review" on the end.

And this:-

Thanks, that's sound advice and hopefully this little lesson will instil it in me.

[El Snarfo]

@DaveB, thanks for the info - I don't know if this is contracted through Capita, I don't see any reference to that clause you quoted in the draft contract. I hear what you're saying about behaving like a contractor but it still seems like a bit of a gamble if I have to go through this questionnaire with one of the client's managers.