Invoking Substitution Clause

[takethebus]

Hi,

I am currently in a support role contracted to client via agency and will soon be thinking about some time off. I have quite a tight substitution clause in regards to the contract between my limited and the agency in that the client may not reasonably refuse the provision of a substitute if properly qualified etc etc.
My brother in law has recently been made redundant and has a very similar skills profile to mine and as he is out of work I am thinking of offering him as a substitute thus continuing the billing from my limited and earning a little for it and also providing him with a few weeks work, plus it may be good for my working practices to show that I have substituted?
Assuming that the clients upper contract with the agency is similar, Can anyone think of anything that would be an issue in employing my brother in law as I would be doing this on his skills and ability rather than who he is?
As it would be a short term assignment what would be my options/limitation on how to do this through the company - PAYE?
Thanks
Takethebus

[stek]

Hi,

I am currently in a support role contracted to client via agency and will soon be thinking about some time off. I have quite a tight substitution clause in regards to the contract between my limited and the agency in that the client may not reasonably refuse the provision of a substitute if properly qualified etc etc.
My brother in law has recently been made redundant and has a very similar skills profile to mine and as he is out of work I am thinking of offering him as a substitute thus continuing the billing from my limited and earning a little for it and also providing him with a few weeks work, plus it may be good for my working practices to show that I have substituted?
Assuming that the clients upper contract with the agency is similar, Can anyone think of anything that would be an issue in employing my brother in law as I would be doing this on his skills and ability rather than who he is?
As it would be a short term assignment what would be my options/limitation on how to do this through the company - PAYE?
Thanks
Takethebus

Employers liability insurance?

What happens if he fecks up?

What happens if he's better than you and they can you and keep him?

[takethebus]

i already have employers liability insurance included in my business insurances, so assuming that would cover what i need, including if he fecked up, as its a support role less likely chance of this happening i would of thought. - unless i am missing something more?
Client have already intimated in monthly catch ups that they are more than happy with my performance so i cant see him replacing in a support role

[psychocandy]

Support environment and sending in a sub? Good luck with that one.

Might be in the contract but a lot of clients would be horrified at the thought of paying someone else.

Its not just IT knowledge/ skills, its local knowledge gained etc/how particular client does things. OK you start a new gig, client has no choice but to expect a little while whilst you gather this knowledge.

BUT, when its all up and running, hes not got going to allow possibly a new person to come in and start from scratch.

[jmo21]

Support environment and sending in a sub? Good luck with that one.

Might be in the contract but a lot of clients would be horrified at the thought of paying someone else.

Its not just IT knowledge/ skills, its local knowledge gained etc/how particular client does things. OK you start a new gig, client has no choice but to expect a little while whilst you gather this knowledge.

BUT, when its all up and running, hes not got going to allow possibly a new person to come in and start from scratch.

I'm with PC on this one. It might be in most of our contracts, but I've never met anyone who has used a subby clause.

A couple of folk on here have, but I suspect they are in a very small minority. I suspect {some large percentage} of clients would simply not let you do this regardless of your contract.

And by "not let you", they'd say "No you can't do that, and if you don't like it, we will terminate your contract".

[northernladuk]

You do know it's not a matter of him turning up instead of you don't you. You need to skill the sub up so even if they accept you will need to partner up to bring him up to speed. Now whether the client will allow that whilst paying you to do your job is a whole other can of worms and either way one of you will be 'working' for free.

You pay for an accountant so why not ask them about the finances side?

[psychocandy]

You do know it's not a matter of him turning up instead of you don't you. You need to skill the sub up so even if they accept you will need to partner up to bring him up to speed. Now whether the client will allow that whilst paying you to do your job is a whole other can of worms and either way one of you will be 'working' for free.

You pay for an accountant so why not ask them about the finances side?

Yes exactly. But how long is a piece of string? As you say, why should the client let you drag someone else into work with you and waste time showing them how to do things? No advantage to them.

Another thing. You've been there 6 months. You drag you're mate into the office for a week or two, even a month. Then you go off.

Client now has to pay someone whos got one months local knowledge as opposed to you who has gained 6. Why should they?

Also, they know that, no matter how many weeks you train this other person for, you can guarantee as soon as you send the sub in someone will say "oh yes I spoke to x last week and he was going to do this and that?". Potentially sub won't know about this.

Again, client doesnt want this happening so won't be keen.

I've had off the record conversations with clients in the past. Just in general. In most cases, the people on the ground will know nothing about this right of substitution, and that this sort of thing even existed. IF you then tell them "yes I could do that" they're answer 99% of the time is "sod that" thats no good to us!

[Boo]

...What happens if he's better than you and they can you and keep him?

OP takes new job at a different client and OPsCo bills both firms. Great stuff.

Boo

[v8gaz]

I'm with PC on this one. It might be in most of our contracts, but I've never met anyone who has used a subby clause.

Pleased to meet you NLUK - I have. Got a mate in for a week, we split the invoice as he got up to speed, then I got out of there and he ran the contract to the end. (personal reasons to move on)

Client was perfectly happy, and it all ended well.

[WordIsBond]

You don't need employer's liability insurance unless you hire him as an employee.

If for any reason the client goes for this, you could just use him as a subcontractor. Since you are just looking at a few weeks, he could probably just do it on a self-employed basis.