Working at risk

[northernladuk]

Yet invoking a notice period clause which is a perfectly legal and valid clause in the contract that the client/agent has also signed up to, is considered unprofessional on this forum.

Am I missing something?

Two reasons. We are in a business/supplier relationship which is uneven and the reasons most people want to leave i.e. £10 quid a day more gig. Leaving a client in the lurch for £10 a day more is unprofessional. We have people that leave for genuine reasons and no one has a go at them. Selective memory.

And I dont think clients/agents are trying to screw me over on purpose. A lot try and maximise what they want out of the situation but like you said, thats business.

So why not talk like you are in business.

[pr1]

Leaving a client in the lurch for £10 a day more is unprofessional. We have people that leave for genuine reasons and no one has a go at them. Selective memory.

why is there a difference? is there a difference in the business relationship if you can't work a week because you're on holiday or because you're going for an operation? I thought you were an advocate of "we don't take holidays, just periods of unavailability"

very mismatched advice!

[northernladuk]

why is there a difference? is there a difference in the business relationship if you can't work a week because you're on holiday or because you're going for an operation? I thought you were an advocate of "we don't take holidays, just periods of unavailability"

very mismatched advice!

What? Who mentioned holidays?

[pr1]

What? Who mentioned holidays?

it was an example, i'll rephrase

why is there a difference? is there a difference in the business relationship if you're leaving for £10/d more elsewhere or because you're going for a big operation (assuming you invoke and fulfil the contractual notice clause in both cases)?

on the one hand you seem to be pro "business-to-business" talk but on the other you're saying it's unprofessional if you do things for certain reasons?

[fool]

it was an example, i'll rephrase

why is there a difference? is there a difference in the business relationship if you're leaving for £10/d more elsewhere or because you're going for a big operation (assuming you invoke and fulfil the contractual notice clause in both cases)?

on the one hand you seem to be pro "business-to-business" talk but on the other you're saying it's unprofessional if you do things for certain reasons?

It's pretty simple, really. Your contracts are to deliver value to the client. The client exchanges money for that value. If you make a habit of leaving clients mid contract for an extra tenner a day, you're not really going to be delivering value thus you'll fine clients are unwilling to continue to exchange money for your services.

Now if a client messes you about it's totally fair game to rebalance the exchange by asking for further money. I prefer to do this at the end of the current agreement and I'm totally willing to return the favour if they drop the ball on my renewal. Similarly I'll typically tell them of planned holiday on or before renewals.

End of the day though, as long as you're doing what they need, there's probably resonable flexibility in your agreement. Getting prickly about a couple of unpaid days off isn't in either sides interests.

[pr1]

It's pretty simple, really. Your contracts are to deliver value to the client. The client exchanges money for that value. If you make a habit of leaving clients mid contract for an extra tenner a day, you're not really going to be delivering value thus you'll fine clients are unwilling to continue to exchange money for your services.

Now if a client messes you about it's totally fair game to rebalance the exchange by asking for further money. I prefer to do this at the end of the current agreement and I'm totally willing to return the favour if they drop the ball on my renewal. Similarly I'll typically tell them of planned holiday on or before renewals.

End of the day though, as long as you're doing what they need, there's probably resonable flexibility in your agreement. Getting prickly about a couple of unpaid days off isn't in either sides interests.

doesn't answer my question - whether you leave for a "bad reason" (extra £10/day) or a "good reason" (unexpected long term illness) you're still leaving, and failing to deliver the same value - so what's the difference? human emotion?

I agree that if you told your client "I'm really sorry but I've got to go for an operation and I might be off for several weeks or months in the follow up" they'd treat you nicer than if you said "I'm leaving for more money" but contractually, it's the same thing, which is why I don't like people (nluk, in this case) using the "it's a business to business black and white contract" argument where it suits them but not where it doesn't

[TheFaQQer]

Tapping into the wisdom of you all, would you work at risk without extended contract and hope it may ever be released. Agency who normally pays in one week after time sheet signature won't pay me as long as there's no extension and will likely close their portal for me to submit timesheets

I've worked at risk before, but I was working from home, I had nothing else to do, the client was working out who was going to do what in the future...

If the agency tell you not to go, you don't go. Simple.

[MrMarkyMark]

doesn't answer my question - whether you leave for a "bad reason" (extra £10/day) or a "good reason" (unexpected long term illness) you're still leaving, and failing to deliver the same value - so what's the difference? human emotion?

The business point being is they are, possibly, more likely to re-engage you, in the future, if you had to leave due to illness, versus leaving for more money.

contractually, it's the same thing, which is why I don't like people (nluk, in this case) using the "it's a business to business black and white contract" argument where it suits them but not where it doesn't.

Agreed, its the same in the black and white contract sense, but there is a lot more to a contract than just what is written on a piece of paper.
Professionalism has to come into it.
I would suggest that leaving for sickness is a hell of a lot of different than just leaving for more coin.

My "world" is very small, so reputation is everything in what I do.

[LondonManc]

it was an example, i'll rephrase

why is there a difference? is there a difference in the business relationship if you're leaving for £10/d more elsewhere or because you're going for a big operation (assuming you invoke and fulfil the contractual notice clause in both cases)?

on the one hand you seem to be pro "business-to-business" talk but on the other you're saying it's unprofessional if you do things for certain reasons?

Abso-bloody-lutely. One is entirely avoidable and a business decision. The business decision is to leave a client in the lurch. If you want to do that, I hope there's a huge client base because I wouldn't take you on again because I don't know how soon you're going to p*ss off again.

[northernladuk]

doesn't answer my question - whether you leave for a "bad reason" (extra £10/day) or a "good reason" (unexpected long term illness) you're still leaving, and failing to deliver the same value - so what's the difference? human emotion?

I agree that if you told your client "I'm really sorry but I've got to go for an operation and I might be off for several weeks or months in the follow up" they'd treat you nicer than if you said "I'm leaving for more money" but contractually, it's the same thing, which is why I don't like people (nluk, in this case) using the "it's a business to business black and white contract" argument where it suits them but not where it doesn't

Contractually yes, professionally no which was the whole point of this discussion. The attitude and reasoning has a massive impact on the outcome and the future. Two people can deliver exactly the same thing. One person can be a complete c**t about it and no one likes it, the other can be a consummate professional and everyone is happy. Hopefully in both cases karma will re-visit you later with very different impacts.